It's interesting to me that there are a few people on this thread that don't have much confidence in Chase Garbers and many think our ill fated season last year was his fault. Tell me though, how many games did we have our full offensive and defensive line available to play (or even a majority of the starters on both lines available to play)? How many games were 'lost' because of disastrous special teams play in routine situations. I look to the body of work from the year that Garbers won the Redbox bowl. He did not lose a game that year where he played more than a half. His ceiling is high if he stays healthy. Does Milner appear to have a bigger arm. Certainly. Is Milner an excellent athlete? Yes. Can he take the starting job from Chase? Perhaps, but it won't happen quickly unless Garbers absolutely flounders, and if he plays like he did two years ago, I don't see that happening. The coaches are high on Chase for a reason. Coaches are smart and don't like to look like fools. They would be hedging their bets if there was any doubt about Chase, and they aren't. I am looking forward to this season to see the incremental progress the team has made. CAL is not going to recruit like big SEC teams and go to big time program and perennial winner overnight. But Wilcox is building a program. Every year we get marginally better recruits, we get marginally bigger and stronger in the weight room, we get longer and faster, and we get great coaches who can teach. And, never to be forgotten, we get really smart and disciplined kids. I have enjoyed watching our incremental improvements every year since Wilcox has arrived, with the exception of last year as a pandemic year. I see more improvement this year, which should lead to more improvement next year. Wilcox is doing what no coach has ever done successfully at CAL; he's building a 'program'. Even Tedford lost his way chasing top recruits until ultimately the inmates ran the asylum. Wilcox has a great handle on the system and his coaches have a great grasp of their talent. It's going to be a fun year knocking off teams the talking heads said we could not beat.
To me it sounds more like Milner will get a bit of playing time during the OOC games and then redshirt, after which we have him start for 3 years before he goes to the NFL.
For me, the hesitation about Garbers is the hesitation he appeared to have throwing the ball last season (I know, I know.. pandemic, offensive line, new coordinator, etc.). There is a concern that Chase regressed post Baldwin for whatever reason, and nobody really knows what to expect, nor should they, until we see it on the field. I'm just waiting to see what happens and withholding judgment. I do'nt feel I have any reason to be optimistic or pessimistic about Chase. It just is what it is, until then. So it sounds like what people have some angst about is the concept of the QB competition being "closed," not just in the preseason, but throughout the year, because it might just be Wilcox and/or Musgrave's collective style to be "loyal" to the multiyear veteran incumbent, because he/they believe its right, even if it doesnt put the team in the best position to win. They arent Gods. Wilcox's conservatism very well could have had some games. Its part of the deal. Even in that scenario (mid season qb controversy), we can only wait and see. Nobody really knows what's going on in these specific coach/human beings' heads, other than them. Whether you're a former D1 player, coach, expert pundit, casual fan, eccentric chocolate factory magnate, or otherwise.
But all things considered, I appreciate your enthusiasm about the program.
Side note, I live in the Boston area and the new (yet already tired) Cam Newton vs Mac Jones debate rages on the air waves, and there are some parallels (albeit a stretch).
His many offensive flaws aside, Wilcox has already shown plenty times that he is loyal to the team and the win, not the player. He didn't hesitate to pull Bowers in 2018 after half a game, and played a mix of Bmac and Garbers (to obviously bad results) based on what he thought could win the game.
I agree, but think he's in a new situation with Chase that only the time and circumstances has brought about (5th year player, 3rd year starting).. and only time will tell how he handles it if there ends up anything to handle. Bowers was incredibly young, and I think there might of been something else going on with Bowers that nobody really knew about, if I recall. I am rooting for Chase to make the discussion moot either way,
He regressed because he had to learn a brand new complex offensive system, had abbreviated spring and fall practice sessions, and didn't get reps with the receivers he was throwing too. If it were as easy as stepping in after a few practices and running a pro style offense like an all star, then Milner would probably start. And the competition is never closed with Wilcox. For now Chase has earned the starting job and its his to lose. He will get the majority of the reps in practice because he is our starter. If we didn't give our starter the majority of the reps we probably wouldn't win much. Seriously, think through your concerns and ask yourself if anyone could have done much better in the same circumstances. Is there any college QB who previously ran the spread who could come in and effectively run a Pro style offense after shortened Spring and Fall practice sessions? And when you add in the fact that d-line and o-line players were missing en masse through the season until we played the Ducks, I can't look at last season as any evidence of a reliable or predictive body of work. Btw, Cam used to be an amazing athlete, but he's past his prime. And, I don't think he has the ability to master the New England offense. He's never had to become a pure pro style drop back passer because of his athleticsm. Jones is much more cerebral. As Jones gets experience and as Cam ages, the transfer of the starting role will go to Jones. Wilcox is not as conservative as you seem to believe. Remember the Arizona game where he went for the 2 point conversion to end the game and Bowers missed the open man? That is not being risk averse. Nor was it being overly aggressive. That's game management to perfection based on the situation and what his experience told him. Unfortunately it did not work in our favor. And to my experience and not knowing what is going on in a coaches head, I would strongly disagree. Like any other career, coaching is a process. Successful coaches work that process and the details of that process. Strong fundamentals plus the sum of the little things and details that create marginal change that ends up turning into W's. As to the coaches, I would say I have a very good idea of what they are thinking, especially when I listen to their interviews. And I would also say this, as a former player I thought I knew a lot, but when I started coaching I realized how little I knew. I was an assistant under two coaches where we won championships and I learned a great deal from each of them and their other assistants about what it takes to coach a team to a championship. You should try it; then you might actually understand what I am saying.
RE: "Regress" I'm only responding to a gut feeling from times that Chase didnt throw the ball with open receiver(s) and was quick to pull it and run. No need to repeat the circumstances of the season, team, and staff. I understand them. Next, sure, you might say that familiarity with an offense or system should help make a quarterback more confident, and perhaps that same player next season will now see the open receiver and confidently make the throw. But what if they don't? What if something is wrong that wont be fixed? Hopefully that's not the case. Do I have reason to reason to feel super confident one way or the other? Nope. I'm just going to root for Chase, and I'm going to wait and see what happens.
If that didnt fire ya up more.. how about this: There is also the concept of certain players having that "it" factor. Players who step in and just make things happen, regardless of the circumstances, no excuses. Particularly at the Quarterback position. It's a feeling Cal fans haven't really had since Rodgers. Yes, Chase was playing great before that damn shoulder injury.. but I dont fault anyone for having the honest feeling that after 4+ years Chase might not have it, and maybe one of our exciting new guys or recruits do? Only time will tell.
RE: "You should try it; then you might actually understand what I am saying."
It depends on how you define regressing. It's not like he got worse at Baldwin's offense. He got worse numbers playing a brand new offense, with no offensive line to start the season, with almost no time to learn the actual playbook -- which in turn, makes it harder to execute on offense because the defense only has to stop a limited repertoire of plays.
I think CG body of work is great enough to understand his floor and ceiling. The offense will go as far as the OL will let it. Cindric's comments on Saffell versus Driscoll are telling and portend of good things to come. Sometimes a loss is a gain.
Something worth noting from Musgrave's presser is Moore handling all of the key responsibilities of a modern RB: running, catching, and 3rd down pass pro. The last one is a skill that is utterly lacking in the college ranks.
From the vids with Driscoll/Cindric it looks like the former is solidifying at C. I am curious who wll get the LG job : Cindric or Collman.
I am curious if Wilcox steals from the Giants the NASCAR package since we have so many fast and big pass rushers we could line up Goode/Deng/Patu/Croteaux/Jernigan with McKenzie taking up the nose.
This, "He also did take some unnecessary risks that he still completed due to his ridiculous arm strength and talent. He has the most zip out of the QBs and had a great play squeezing the ball to the sidelines to find TE Keleki Latu for a huge gain.", what most Cal fans have been waiting to hear for some time. A QB that has the ability and willingness to throw into tight windows.
I’d say we had the willingness with Bowers. People forget how tough he was standing in the pocket and take shots while throwing deep. Issue was the arm strength just wasn’t there for what he wanted to do.
Kidding aside, some risk-taking is nice to see in practice, this is the perfect time to know what you can and can't do at the next level. It's what makes Mahomes and Allen so good in the NFL.
Mahomes reference is an interesting one as I would imagine a lot of young QB's attempt to model their game to his. It would be an interesting question to ask Millner in an interview.
Yup, it's the no-look passes, the oh god what's he thinking... wait that worked! Things that kids are now modelling themselves after, of course, it was our own Aaron Rodgers who is the pioneer of pushing the boundaries of what's possible with enough arm strength.
Cutler is in my mind the definition of a "fuck it I am throwing deep" QB who did it during games, I know it's a Rex Grossman reference but I got into football too late to appreciate Sexy Rexy.
anything flash yet with monroe young? a lot of talk in the offseason about the jump he made, but i'm not sure if the packages they've been installing involve his skills yet
That he has. He’s taken some strides forward for sure esp into the depth chart imo. Dude has great route running skills and is athletic enough to beat guys out of the break.
what's garbers been like in terms of anticipation and trust? you say he's made better throws today, but is he not seeing open guys down the field? (obviously this is tough to tell live and without film, but did anything pop out to you like that?)
Garbers will not lose the starting job. At least not for the first half of the season. What people don't realize is how steep the learning curve is that true freshman players have to go through to be ready to play at the P5 level as a starter. Even more so for a QB. Kai may have an awesome arm and athletic skills, but until he shows mastery of the offense and the big Wilcox word, CONSISTENCY, the two deep will be Garbers and most likely Johnson. Every once in a while you get a freshman who is a freak athlete, size, strength and speed and they get a chance to fill a spot where there is weakness on the team. Brett Johnson was an example of this as a freshman. Jake Curhan, same thing. But I would tell you, even our four stars will need to earn their playing time. Jermaine Terry will see the field this year, but will he be our 'go to' tight end? That remains to be seen with proven players in the room, all of which have had time on the weights over 3 to 4 years and thus are competitive at the position. The one freshman I do think will be a regular in the rotation is Michael Sturdivant because of length and his pure blazing speed. For sure I trust in Wilcox and his coaches to get the right players on the field for the right situations.
Times have changed and with all the training these kids now get at an early age more and more of them come into college ready to start as freshmen. Most recent example of that is the QB at ASU that shined as a true freshmen. So, it is not unheard of and is occurring with more frequency.
Today's presser revealed Musgrave, once again, staying committed to Garbers like he did pre Spring practice which resulted in 2 QBs transferring out, one at the start of Spring and the 2nd at the tail end of Spring practice. I have no issue with the staff "believing" Garbers gives them the best chance to win but as we've seen recently when other kids don't "feel" like it is an open competition they bale out ~ for better or for worse.
Right now CG is likely our best chance to win and I trust the staff will develop the other QB's and should one of them surpass CG then that player will take over. Either way as a 5th year player CG has to come out of the gate smoking hot and not exhibiting the same shortcomings as in the past.
Do you think Garbers being the starter is why they left? I assumed it was possibly being behind Johnson in the depth chart. Brasch was older and Casey the same age, so both opted to leave since they weren’t the #2
No, as I said it was clear in pressers that the competition wasn't open. So, if it was that clear to us I imagine it was deafening to the players involved. Athletes want the opportunity to compete, simple as that.
I've been involved with teams where the starter clearly wasn't the best at the position or for the team. Most of the team saw it that way. It took awhile but the coaches "finally" realized it after several loses and poor team chemistry.
Hopefully CG has it all together now and let's face it he should have given how long he's been in the program ~ regardless of a new OC.
Musgrave kinda spoke to this as well. Said that they are keeping the playbook really limited for Kai to get him comfortable. That will allow him to show off his natural talent in practice, but it’s not what we want at the starting position when we have a very good starter in Chase already.
Garbers isn’t losing his job unless someone blows him out of the water. And that shouldve already started at practice 1 if they were gonna do that. No one has and it won’t change. It’s a battle for the number 2 spot.
I don't think you have to worry about Chase pushing himself. This should be his last year, although he has one more if he wants it. He really wants to play pro so he knows he has to impress this year. He's finally had a full spring and some additional time in Musgrave's system. He'll have the entire fall to prepare. He'll be ready. And, if you recall last Spring during practices Zach at times looked better than Chase, but when they had the Spring scrimmage, the real test, Chase was WAY better. Chase is the best option for us as starter. He wants to play at the next level. If our o-line can open up our running game, he'll shine this year as it will take the edge off the pass rush. I have high hopes for our o-line. We have the most athletic and most real depth since I can remember.
Possibly. He needs more strength, but that's just work. He can hit the windows and I think he will show it this year. Last year Mac Jones looked so damn good, but he also had a great o-line and receivers that were big, long, fast and strong and could pull down a pass within 5 feet of them. This year will tell. I have seen flashes of great play under BB's old system, where we had a weaker o-line and a fairly ineffective running game. That should all change this year. A balanced offense with a good o-line and time in Musgrave's system that has not been marred by a pandemic should allow Chase to show his abilities, again. There's a reason the coaches are high on him, and they see him every day in practice, watch his film back and forth and talk with him in the room. They know way better than any of us who the starter should be.
CG can't complete a pass 35+ yards downfield and in stride. At least, I for one, have not seen that consistently during the past 4 years. That is a pretty big sample size.
Should the OL improve this year it will make an average QB look average. A great OL will make an average QB look good.
After the OSU game last year I was advocating for that OL to finish out the rest of the year. Imagine how much experience a guy like Driscoll would now have and the dividends it would pay off this season.
Of course we did not know about an added year for players or that Saffell would have a medical retire but the year was shot and that OL against the Beavers performed as well (I think better) than the starters. So a lost opportunity given 20/20 hindsight.
His second year playing meant he had time in BB's offensive scheme, which is far simpler than Musgraves. He had to re-learn a new and very complicated prostyle system in the midst of a pandemic. Look at what Garbers did that second year, when he came back from injury and led us to a solid win over Illinois in a bowl game. Now that he has had time im Musgrave's system I expect him to be much more productive. As well, with an improved o-line and running game, he won't feel as much pressure as with BB's system. Defenses came after Garbers in BB's system as they knew our running game was not a big threat. I think as our offense gets more balanced and with time in Musgraves system, we should see Garbers be better this year than his last year with BB where he won every game in which he played more than a half of the game.
It's interesting to me that there are a few people on this thread that don't have much confidence in Chase Garbers and many think our ill fated season last year was his fault. Tell me though, how many games did we have our full offensive and defensive line available to play (or even a majority of the starters on both lines available to play)? How many games were 'lost' because of disastrous special teams play in routine situations. I look to the body of work from the year that Garbers won the Redbox bowl. He did not lose a game that year where he played more than a half. His ceiling is high if he stays healthy. Does Milner appear to have a bigger arm. Certainly. Is Milner an excellent athlete? Yes. Can he take the starting job from Chase? Perhaps, but it won't happen quickly unless Garbers absolutely flounders, and if he plays like he did two years ago, I don't see that happening. The coaches are high on Chase for a reason. Coaches are smart and don't like to look like fools. They would be hedging their bets if there was any doubt about Chase, and they aren't. I am looking forward to this season to see the incremental progress the team has made. CAL is not going to recruit like big SEC teams and go to big time program and perennial winner overnight. But Wilcox is building a program. Every year we get marginally better recruits, we get marginally bigger and stronger in the weight room, we get longer and faster, and we get great coaches who can teach. And, never to be forgotten, we get really smart and disciplined kids. I have enjoyed watching our incremental improvements every year since Wilcox has arrived, with the exception of last year as a pandemic year. I see more improvement this year, which should lead to more improvement next year. Wilcox is doing what no coach has ever done successfully at CAL; he's building a 'program'. Even Tedford lost his way chasing top recruits until ultimately the inmates ran the asylum. Wilcox has a great handle on the system and his coaches have a great grasp of their talent. It's going to be a fun year knocking off teams the talking heads said we could not beat.
To me it sounds more like Milner will get a bit of playing time during the OOC games and then redshirt, after which we have him start for 3 years before he goes to the NFL.
If he's good he'll go pro after his Junior year and our next in like, Justyn Martin, will get his two years and on and on.
For me, the hesitation about Garbers is the hesitation he appeared to have throwing the ball last season (I know, I know.. pandemic, offensive line, new coordinator, etc.). There is a concern that Chase regressed post Baldwin for whatever reason, and nobody really knows what to expect, nor should they, until we see it on the field. I'm just waiting to see what happens and withholding judgment. I do'nt feel I have any reason to be optimistic or pessimistic about Chase. It just is what it is, until then. So it sounds like what people have some angst about is the concept of the QB competition being "closed," not just in the preseason, but throughout the year, because it might just be Wilcox and/or Musgrave's collective style to be "loyal" to the multiyear veteran incumbent, because he/they believe its right, even if it doesnt put the team in the best position to win. They arent Gods. Wilcox's conservatism very well could have had some games. Its part of the deal. Even in that scenario (mid season qb controversy), we can only wait and see. Nobody really knows what's going on in these specific coach/human beings' heads, other than them. Whether you're a former D1 player, coach, expert pundit, casual fan, eccentric chocolate factory magnate, or otherwise.
But all things considered, I appreciate your enthusiasm about the program.
Side note, I live in the Boston area and the new (yet already tired) Cam Newton vs Mac Jones debate rages on the air waves, and there are some parallels (albeit a stretch).
His many offensive flaws aside, Wilcox has already shown plenty times that he is loyal to the team and the win, not the player. He didn't hesitate to pull Bowers in 2018 after half a game, and played a mix of Bmac and Garbers (to obviously bad results) based on what he thought could win the game.
I agree, but think he's in a new situation with Chase that only the time and circumstances has brought about (5th year player, 3rd year starting).. and only time will tell how he handles it if there ends up anything to handle. Bowers was incredibly young, and I think there might of been something else going on with Bowers that nobody really knew about, if I recall. I am rooting for Chase to make the discussion moot either way,
He regressed because he had to learn a brand new complex offensive system, had abbreviated spring and fall practice sessions, and didn't get reps with the receivers he was throwing too. If it were as easy as stepping in after a few practices and running a pro style offense like an all star, then Milner would probably start. And the competition is never closed with Wilcox. For now Chase has earned the starting job and its his to lose. He will get the majority of the reps in practice because he is our starter. If we didn't give our starter the majority of the reps we probably wouldn't win much. Seriously, think through your concerns and ask yourself if anyone could have done much better in the same circumstances. Is there any college QB who previously ran the spread who could come in and effectively run a Pro style offense after shortened Spring and Fall practice sessions? And when you add in the fact that d-line and o-line players were missing en masse through the season until we played the Ducks, I can't look at last season as any evidence of a reliable or predictive body of work. Btw, Cam used to be an amazing athlete, but he's past his prime. And, I don't think he has the ability to master the New England offense. He's never had to become a pure pro style drop back passer because of his athleticsm. Jones is much more cerebral. As Jones gets experience and as Cam ages, the transfer of the starting role will go to Jones. Wilcox is not as conservative as you seem to believe. Remember the Arizona game where he went for the 2 point conversion to end the game and Bowers missed the open man? That is not being risk averse. Nor was it being overly aggressive. That's game management to perfection based on the situation and what his experience told him. Unfortunately it did not work in our favor. And to my experience and not knowing what is going on in a coaches head, I would strongly disagree. Like any other career, coaching is a process. Successful coaches work that process and the details of that process. Strong fundamentals plus the sum of the little things and details that create marginal change that ends up turning into W's. As to the coaches, I would say I have a very good idea of what they are thinking, especially when I listen to their interviews. And I would also say this, as a former player I thought I knew a lot, but when I started coaching I realized how little I knew. I was an assistant under two coaches where we won championships and I learned a great deal from each of them and their other assistants about what it takes to coach a team to a championship. You should try it; then you might actually understand what I am saying.
RE: "Regress" I'm only responding to a gut feeling from times that Chase didnt throw the ball with open receiver(s) and was quick to pull it and run. No need to repeat the circumstances of the season, team, and staff. I understand them. Next, sure, you might say that familiarity with an offense or system should help make a quarterback more confident, and perhaps that same player next season will now see the open receiver and confidently make the throw. But what if they don't? What if something is wrong that wont be fixed? Hopefully that's not the case. Do I have reason to reason to feel super confident one way or the other? Nope. I'm just going to root for Chase, and I'm going to wait and see what happens.
If that didnt fire ya up more.. how about this: There is also the concept of certain players having that "it" factor. Players who step in and just make things happen, regardless of the circumstances, no excuses. Particularly at the Quarterback position. It's a feeling Cal fans haven't really had since Rodgers. Yes, Chase was playing great before that damn shoulder injury.. but I dont fault anyone for having the honest feeling that after 4+ years Chase might not have it, and maybe one of our exciting new guys or recruits do? Only time will tell.
RE: "You should try it; then you might actually understand what I am saying."
You funny.
It depends on how you define regressing. It's not like he got worse at Baldwin's offense. He got worse numbers playing a brand new offense, with no offensive line to start the season, with almost no time to learn the actual playbook -- which in turn, makes it harder to execute on offense because the defense only has to stop a limited repertoire of plays.
It was purely the eye test of him making (or not attempting) throws. Super educated and scientific.
I think CG body of work is great enough to understand his floor and ceiling. The offense will go as far as the OL will let it. Cindric's comments on Saffell versus Driscoll are telling and portend of good things to come. Sometimes a loss is a gain.
He did beat SC, Washington, Stanford (10 year drought), and Oregon. Not sure what else folks are expecting except Jesus in cleats.
Backup QB is always the fan favorite player on the team.
I think you can write my arguments for me! Haha well said
I see why I created a storm here. I was thinking and I think wrote between but probably typo’d it and it corrected to behind.
MY BAD YALL. ONE WORD MAKES THE WORLD OF A DIFFERENCE. EVERYONE LEVEL YOUR DEFCON LEVEL. ITS A TIME OF PEACE.
Something worth noting from Musgrave's presser is Moore handling all of the key responsibilities of a modern RB: running, catching, and 3rd down pass pro. The last one is a skill that is utterly lacking in the college ranks.
From the vids with Driscoll/Cindric it looks like the former is solidifying at C. I am curious who wll get the LG job : Cindric or Collman.
I am curious if Wilcox steals from the Giants the NASCAR package since we have so many fast and big pass rushers we could line up Goode/Deng/Patu/Croteaux/Jernigan with McKenzie taking up the nose.
https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/10/new-york-giants-debuted-new-nascar-pass-rush-package-and-i-cant-wait-to-see-it-in-action/
In my glorified memory, I feel that Forsett and Vereen were the best at all those three skills. All around backs.
100%, it's why both did well in the league Vereen when he was with the Pats and Forsett when he landed in a team that knew what they had.
GOULLLLLLLLLLLD
I leave for a few hours and I come back to a storm and the comment section is on fire. What did I do wrong this time?
This, "He also did take some unnecessary risks that he still completed due to his ridiculous arm strength and talent. He has the most zip out of the QBs and had a great play squeezing the ball to the sidelines to find TE Keleki Latu for a huge gain.", what most Cal fans have been waiting to hear for some time. A QB that has the ability and willingness to throw into tight windows.
"QB that has the ability and willingness to throw into tight windows."
We had pretty recently in Webb. But no QB in Wilcox era.
I’d say we had the willingness with Bowers. People forget how tough he was standing in the pocket and take shots while throwing deep. Issue was the arm strength just wasn’t there for what he wanted to do.
BY GAWD IS IT JAY CUTLER'S MUSIC?!
Kidding aside, some risk-taking is nice to see in practice, this is the perfect time to know what you can and can't do at the next level. It's what makes Mahomes and Allen so good in the NFL.
Mahomes reference is an interesting one as I would imagine a lot of young QB's attempt to model their game to his. It would be an interesting question to ask Millner in an interview.
I could do that
Yup, it's the no-look passes, the oh god what's he thinking... wait that worked! Things that kids are now modelling themselves after, of course, it was our own Aaron Rodgers who is the pioneer of pushing the boundaries of what's possible with enough arm strength.
Brett Favre would like a word.
Yeah, but Favre didn't have touch with his strength. He just threw that ball in as hard as he could and hoped for the best.
I don't understand the reference to Cutler but absolutely agree about understanding risk and learning how and when to mitigate it during camp.
Cutler is in my mind the definition of a "fuck it I am throwing deep" QB who did it during games, I know it's a Rex Grossman reference but I got into football too late to appreciate Sexy Rexy.
My memory could be failing me, but I thought Grossman was "Fuck it, I'm throwing deep" and Cutler was a more equitable "Fuck it, I'm throwing hard."
The AND in that final sentence is key. Can’t be an OR.
how are the tight ends looking? is tonges getting more physical with his coverage? and i'll take any terry news any day
JT IN 2 TE SETS? WITH TONGES? PASSING GAME THREATS. MY GOODNESS.
anything flash yet with monroe young? a lot of talk in the offseason about the jump he made, but i'm not sure if the packages they've been installing involve his skills yet
That he has. He’s taken some strides forward for sure esp into the depth chart imo. Dude has great route running skills and is athletic enough to beat guys out of the break.
what's garbers been like in terms of anticipation and trust? you say he's made better throws today, but is he not seeing open guys down the field? (obviously this is tough to tell live and without film, but did anything pop out to you like that?)
Hi author here. I have a name. It’s Rob. Up there in the article as well!
Garbers will not lose the starting job. At least not for the first half of the season. What people don't realize is how steep the learning curve is that true freshman players have to go through to be ready to play at the P5 level as a starter. Even more so for a QB. Kai may have an awesome arm and athletic skills, but until he shows mastery of the offense and the big Wilcox word, CONSISTENCY, the two deep will be Garbers and most likely Johnson. Every once in a while you get a freshman who is a freak athlete, size, strength and speed and they get a chance to fill a spot where there is weakness on the team. Brett Johnson was an example of this as a freshman. Jake Curhan, same thing. But I would tell you, even our four stars will need to earn their playing time. Jermaine Terry will see the field this year, but will he be our 'go to' tight end? That remains to be seen with proven players in the room, all of which have had time on the weights over 3 to 4 years and thus are competitive at the position. The one freshman I do think will be a regular in the rotation is Michael Sturdivant because of length and his pure blazing speed. For sure I trust in Wilcox and his coaches to get the right players on the field for the right situations.
Times have changed and with all the training these kids now get at an early age more and more of them come into college ready to start as freshmen. Most recent example of that is the QB at ASU that shined as a true freshmen. So, it is not unheard of and is occurring with more frequency.
Today's presser revealed Musgrave, once again, staying committed to Garbers like he did pre Spring practice which resulted in 2 QBs transferring out, one at the start of Spring and the 2nd at the tail end of Spring practice. I have no issue with the staff "believing" Garbers gives them the best chance to win but as we've seen recently when other kids don't "feel" like it is an open competition they bale out ~ for better or for worse.
Right now CG is likely our best chance to win and I trust the staff will develop the other QB's and should one of them surpass CG then that player will take over. Either way as a 5th year player CG has to come out of the gate smoking hot and not exhibiting the same shortcomings as in the past.
https://theathletic.com/2381026/2021/02/11/quarterbacks-ohio-state-notre-dame-tennessee/
Do you think Garbers being the starter is why they left? I assumed it was possibly being behind Johnson in the depth chart. Brasch was older and Casey the same age, so both opted to leave since they weren’t the #2
IIRC Casey left prior to Spring even starting so I doubt Johnson had been anointed #2 at that time.
Pretty sure Johnson was the travel QB and Casey wasn’t during the season
Again, we are discussing Spring ball.
No, as I said it was clear in pressers that the competition wasn't open. So, if it was that clear to us I imagine it was deafening to the players involved. Athletes want the opportunity to compete, simple as that.
I've been involved with teams where the starter clearly wasn't the best at the position or for the team. Most of the team saw it that way. It took awhile but the coaches "finally" realized it after several loses and poor team chemistry.
Hopefully CG has it all together now and let's face it he should have given how long he's been in the program ~ regardless of a new OC.
One example of this was when Garbers took over for Bowers.
Musgrave kinda spoke to this as well. Said that they are keeping the playbook really limited for Kai to get him comfortable. That will allow him to show off his natural talent in practice, but it’s not what we want at the starting position when we have a very good starter in Chase already.
Yep. I think it’s more thinking towards next year to have Kai with the 2’s - get him used to throwing to Terry, Baker, Christakos, etc.
Garbers isn’t losing his job unless someone blows him out of the water. And that shouldve already started at practice 1 if they were gonna do that. No one has and it won’t change. It’s a battle for the number 2 spot.
RELAX EVERYBODY
I don't think you have to worry about Chase pushing himself. This should be his last year, although he has one more if he wants it. He really wants to play pro so he knows he has to impress this year. He's finally had a full spring and some additional time in Musgrave's system. He'll have the entire fall to prepare. He'll be ready. And, if you recall last Spring during practices Zach at times looked better than Chase, but when they had the Spring scrimmage, the real test, Chase was WAY better. Chase is the best option for us as starter. He wants to play at the next level. If our o-line can open up our running game, he'll shine this year as it will take the edge off the pass rush. I have high hopes for our o-line. We have the most athletic and most real depth since I can remember.
Do you think CG has a pro level arm talent?
Possibly. He needs more strength, but that's just work. He can hit the windows and I think he will show it this year. Last year Mac Jones looked so damn good, but he also had a great o-line and receivers that were big, long, fast and strong and could pull down a pass within 5 feet of them. This year will tell. I have seen flashes of great play under BB's old system, where we had a weaker o-line and a fairly ineffective running game. That should all change this year. A balanced offense with a good o-line and time in Musgrave's system that has not been marred by a pandemic should allow Chase to show his abilities, again. There's a reason the coaches are high on him, and they see him every day in practice, watch his film back and forth and talk with him in the room. They know way better than any of us who the starter should be.
CG can't complete a pass 35+ yards downfield and in stride. At least, I for one, have not seen that consistently during the past 4 years. That is a pretty big sample size.
Should the OL improve this year it will make an average QB look average. A great OL will make an average QB look good.
After the OSU game last year I was advocating for that OL to finish out the rest of the year. Imagine how much experience a guy like Driscoll would now have and the dividends it would pay off this season.
Of course we did not know about an added year for players or that Saffell would have a medical retire but the year was shot and that OL against the Beavers performed as well (I think better) than the starters. So a lost opportunity given 20/20 hindsight.
His second year playing meant he had time in BB's offensive scheme, which is far simpler than Musgraves. He had to re-learn a new and very complicated prostyle system in the midst of a pandemic. Look at what Garbers did that second year, when he came back from injury and led us to a solid win over Illinois in a bowl game. Now that he has had time im Musgrave's system I expect him to be much more productive. As well, with an improved o-line and running game, he won't feel as much pressure as with BB's system. Defenses came after Garbers in BB's system as they knew our running game was not a big threat. I think as our offense gets more balanced and with time in Musgraves system, we should see Garbers be better this year than his last year with BB where he won every game in which he played more than a half of the game.
Rugbear's takes are on point