I love how peeps are so flip about 4* QBs. "No worries we have a 4* coming in this year and next." Ratings, especially at QB, don't mean anything.
Modster transfer was "expected".
Casey transfer I expected as well only because I am friends with a friend of the family. That was no surprise.
Brasch leaving puts the QB group as the least experienced group on the entire team. Brasch was, until he left, the only QB with "some" PT (1 game and a few series). How his departure is spun into "good news" or "we are OK" is one play and one knee injury away should Chase go down. Rowell does have a few mop up series that hardly counts as experience.
It is an entirely different scenario if your #2 has experience or has been in the system for multiple years ~ especially at the QB position. In this instant case Cal does not have that.
As the spring sessions went on with Casey leaving just a few days in and then Brasch leaving one day after Musgrave announces his #1 and #2, it is not a stretch to surmise that Musgrave made a decision prior to spring even starting. QBs are Alphas by nature. They want to compete and sans an opportunity to do so, they will move on.
Modster and Casey's departure could be absorbed, losing Brasch hurts the team. Here is one simple aspect where it hurts: with only 3 QB's that's a lot of less "turns" for WRs & TEs. You can't have your QBs throwing 100's of passes per practice and burning their arms out. And that goes for both the #1 and #2. WRs and TEs will get less reps, not good for development or depth. This issue is now exasperated during the summer months of PLP where there is potential for a lot of reps.
So to sum up, you can't convince me that having 3 QBs (4th coming in June/August, which will help) is overall good for the team heading into the Fall. Best case scenario is that Millner comes in and completely absorbs the playbook and wows the staff. At that point, I would feel a lot more comfortable going into this campaign that is critical for Musgrave and Cal's doormat offense.
Hopefully the OL is much improved this year that would alleviate a lot of pressure on the QBs.
Would I rather have 5 QB's in the room than 4 or 3? For sure. But in todays world, where kids get ranked by Rivals, 247 and more, if they don't get playing time they are going to move to a school where they think they will play. As to freshman QB's, granted a 4 star out of high school only means the kid is an athlete and has the tools to be special in college ball, bit it still takes coaching up. In Musgrave I trust. The way Brasch played against Utah, if Musgrave didn't have him in the top two, his loss is not going to hurt us. Look at his Spring stats. They aren't good. Btw, don't forget Robby Rowell just cause he's a walk-on. And no one knows if Musgrave had Robby higher on his mental depth chart than Spencer. Lastly, QB's never throw 100's of passes in a single practice. In two hours of practice with all the different drills and number of plays, they are very lucky if they throw 100. And when Fall Camp and the season roll around, ALL the reps go to the #1 & #2 QB's and the starter always gets the majority. Anyone below #2 gets experience playing scout team. The receivers are better off getting passes from the QB's that will be on the field come game time. Timing on routes and familiarity are real important. Btw, during Fall the same thing happens with the receivers. The ones who will play in games get all the reps, the ones that don't get Scout Team reps. Lastly, our offense looked pretty good today in the scrimmage. Granted, there were some starters out on offense and defense. I think today was all about evaluating players for the Fall depth chart. I think we're going to be fine. But that's just my opinion (based on a lot of years playing and coaching).
Nothing can be gleaned from that scrimmage given all of the mixing and matching going on. Several observations: ZJ has very good pocket awareness, Brooks is hella fast/quick. Terry may have an injured knee, hopefully not.
BTW, have you ever been to a PLP? I have, the QBs easily throw the ball > 100 x from warm up through end of practice. Regardless, my point is that 3 QBs is not optimal, Brasch did us a favor by sticking through all of Spring. By Fall camp we will have 4 QBs which is significantly better. I very much hope that Millner plays up to and beyond his potential.
I read in one post that someone said we have "good depth" at QB, if there is one thing we can agree on, it is that at the moment Cal has zero proven depth at QB, Right? And that should concern Cal fans.
Not sure I understand when you say nothing can be gleaned from the scrimmage. I think the mixing and matching was, for coaches, all about looking at different players and their performance. Coaches will review film and from that make final decisions for the Fall depth chart. If you are referring to QB play I would agree to a point. Musgrave already has his depth chart so he'll use the film for coaching up his guys. The real truth is its always better to have more QB's than less, but once you get past #2 on the depth chart, if #3 needs to be inserted in a game, its not a good thing. The fall off between #1 and #2 is usually fairly evident because of how practice reps are distributed and game experience. But when you get to #3 there is a YUGE fall off because they literally get no reps during the season. Brasch's game against Utah in 2019 is a great example of that. And remember what I said about not knowing if Musgrave feels better about Rowell than Brasch. To conclude, if we end up needing to go deep in our depth chart, #3 or below, to put a QB on the field, it really won't matter. Depth is good for competition and training up guys for the future. We have that coming in. In the end I think your earlier comments about the o-line are on point. If they play well and protect our QB we won't need to worry about playing a #3 QB. And you are right when you say CAL has zero proven depth at QB. But then not many schools do. ;-)
This was not unexpected. With Chase Garbers and Zach Johnson nailing down the #1 & #2 spots and with Zach being younger than Spencer, the writing was on the wall. And with a new 4* QB arriving in the fall and another 4* QB committed for next year, the competition for the starting slot was only going to get more intense. It's the way of the world today; kids who don't make the top two rotation don't really care about the school, they want to play and so transfer to a place where they believe they have a better shot at playing. And for all we know Musgrave may have had a private conversation with Spencer telling him that Robby Rowell would play ahead of him. When I coached at JC level we rarely had more than 2 deep at any position because if you weren't top 2 then you weren't playing. I specifically remember we had a kid who played D-Line that couldn't crack our top 2 rotation so he went to a another JC where he ended up starting. He actually played well int the game against us, but he still wasn't good enough to crack our rotation. So, to respond to another comment, there is nothing wrong in the QB room, this is a result of a competition for playing time and a desire to get playing time over sitting on the bench. I wish Spencer well. I met his parents at the 'Lightning Game' at UW in 2019 and they were real nice people. I'm sure it was not an easy decision.
Like others here, I see this as a credit to the coaches and QB room and team culture. We've got good depth, still, and will hit fall with better. Garbers will certainly miss a game or two, and we will see some drop off with any of them, as most teams would. As Cal recruits better and better skill players, we are going to get more guys who feel strongly they are good enough to play D1 at a high level. They will understandably leave when the Jermaine Terry's or Kai Milner's of the world show up and promise to get all the snaps for a few years.
In comparison, Austin Hinder, who chose Cal while holding an offer from Alabama, spent the entire time as a backup but never transferred. I think it just depends on the individual. Hinder seemed to be enjoying spending time with his Cal friends out here. His highlight was the Klindergoff competition in 2013.
Yeah I would read it that the staff is bullish on the future signal callers in addition to Garbers and Johnson, rather than a repudiation of Musgrave's offense. Time will tell.
Maybe Wilcox and Musgraves are straight up and honest with these guys. Maybe rather than stringing them along they just lay it out. Some guys stay because they like being part of the team and are in it for the education and recognize the reality of having to quit the game at some point.
I think he’s a guy who wants to play and those chances just decreased to an unacceptable level. We recruit guys that want to play and they all know the realities of the depth chart. I wouldn’t read anything into this about “the room” besides that.
Ehhhhh. If garbers is number 1. And the positive raves around Zach Johnson are real. They probably want a real chance to play now. Johnson was also the last QB suited up last season instead of Casey for the active Gameday roster. With Kai coming in the fall and Justyn the following year. They have healthy competition for the post-Garbers era. 2 4stars and a high 3star. They’re fine in the QB room.
If Cal goes 0-2 to start the season (Nevada won't be a pushover), and Garbers just plays so-so, would it be time to acknowledge that he's reached his limit and move on? Even if we're 2-0 and he plays well, I'd still like to see Wilcox sit Garbers, start Zach Johnson, and play him more than half of the Sac St game, preferably all of it. There's nothing like live snaps to get a backup/heir ready.
I mean Vince Ferragamo led Nebraska to victory in the Blue Bonnet bowl, then was picked in the 4th round and took the Rams to the Super Bowl. I think that's slightly more success than taking CW Post (which is a NAIA school) anywhere.
Interesting. Klein played behind Pat Barnes, who was drafted at the same level (110th overall vs Klein's 111th), and had a better NFL career. So it's not like Cal played the wrong guy.
And what an awful quarterback class in 1994 - there were 9 QBs picked:
Trent Dilfer, Heath Shuler, Perry Klein, Doug Nussmeier, Jim Miller, Gus Frerotte, Jay Walker, Steve Matthews and Glenn Foley.
I love how peeps are so flip about 4* QBs. "No worries we have a 4* coming in this year and next." Ratings, especially at QB, don't mean anything.
Modster transfer was "expected".
Casey transfer I expected as well only because I am friends with a friend of the family. That was no surprise.
Brasch leaving puts the QB group as the least experienced group on the entire team. Brasch was, until he left, the only QB with "some" PT (1 game and a few series). How his departure is spun into "good news" or "we are OK" is one play and one knee injury away should Chase go down. Rowell does have a few mop up series that hardly counts as experience.
It is an entirely different scenario if your #2 has experience or has been in the system for multiple years ~ especially at the QB position. In this instant case Cal does not have that.
As the spring sessions went on with Casey leaving just a few days in and then Brasch leaving one day after Musgrave announces his #1 and #2, it is not a stretch to surmise that Musgrave made a decision prior to spring even starting. QBs are Alphas by nature. They want to compete and sans an opportunity to do so, they will move on.
Modster and Casey's departure could be absorbed, losing Brasch hurts the team. Here is one simple aspect where it hurts: with only 3 QB's that's a lot of less "turns" for WRs & TEs. You can't have your QBs throwing 100's of passes per practice and burning their arms out. And that goes for both the #1 and #2. WRs and TEs will get less reps, not good for development or depth. This issue is now exasperated during the summer months of PLP where there is potential for a lot of reps.
So to sum up, you can't convince me that having 3 QBs (4th coming in June/August, which will help) is overall good for the team heading into the Fall. Best case scenario is that Millner comes in and completely absorbs the playbook and wows the staff. At that point, I would feel a lot more comfortable going into this campaign that is critical for Musgrave and Cal's doormat offense.
Hopefully the OL is much improved this year that would alleviate a lot of pressure on the QBs.
Would I rather have 5 QB's in the room than 4 or 3? For sure. But in todays world, where kids get ranked by Rivals, 247 and more, if they don't get playing time they are going to move to a school where they think they will play. As to freshman QB's, granted a 4 star out of high school only means the kid is an athlete and has the tools to be special in college ball, bit it still takes coaching up. In Musgrave I trust. The way Brasch played against Utah, if Musgrave didn't have him in the top two, his loss is not going to hurt us. Look at his Spring stats. They aren't good. Btw, don't forget Robby Rowell just cause he's a walk-on. And no one knows if Musgrave had Robby higher on his mental depth chart than Spencer. Lastly, QB's never throw 100's of passes in a single practice. In two hours of practice with all the different drills and number of plays, they are very lucky if they throw 100. And when Fall Camp and the season roll around, ALL the reps go to the #1 & #2 QB's and the starter always gets the majority. Anyone below #2 gets experience playing scout team. The receivers are better off getting passes from the QB's that will be on the field come game time. Timing on routes and familiarity are real important. Btw, during Fall the same thing happens with the receivers. The ones who will play in games get all the reps, the ones that don't get Scout Team reps. Lastly, our offense looked pretty good today in the scrimmage. Granted, there were some starters out on offense and defense. I think today was all about evaluating players for the Fall depth chart. I think we're going to be fine. But that's just my opinion (based on a lot of years playing and coaching).
Nothing can be gleaned from that scrimmage given all of the mixing and matching going on. Several observations: ZJ has very good pocket awareness, Brooks is hella fast/quick. Terry may have an injured knee, hopefully not.
BTW, have you ever been to a PLP? I have, the QBs easily throw the ball > 100 x from warm up through end of practice. Regardless, my point is that 3 QBs is not optimal, Brasch did us a favor by sticking through all of Spring. By Fall camp we will have 4 QBs which is significantly better. I very much hope that Millner plays up to and beyond his potential.
I read in one post that someone said we have "good depth" at QB, if there is one thing we can agree on, it is that at the moment Cal has zero proven depth at QB, Right? And that should concern Cal fans.
Not sure I understand when you say nothing can be gleaned from the scrimmage. I think the mixing and matching was, for coaches, all about looking at different players and their performance. Coaches will review film and from that make final decisions for the Fall depth chart. If you are referring to QB play I would agree to a point. Musgrave already has his depth chart so he'll use the film for coaching up his guys. The real truth is its always better to have more QB's than less, but once you get past #2 on the depth chart, if #3 needs to be inserted in a game, its not a good thing. The fall off between #1 and #2 is usually fairly evident because of how practice reps are distributed and game experience. But when you get to #3 there is a YUGE fall off because they literally get no reps during the season. Brasch's game against Utah in 2019 is a great example of that. And remember what I said about not knowing if Musgrave feels better about Rowell than Brasch. To conclude, if we end up needing to go deep in our depth chart, #3 or below, to put a QB on the field, it really won't matter. Depth is good for competition and training up guys for the future. We have that coming in. In the end I think your earlier comments about the o-line are on point. If they play well and protect our QB we won't need to worry about playing a #3 QB. And you are right when you say CAL has zero proven depth at QB. But then not many schools do. ;-)
This was not unexpected. With Chase Garbers and Zach Johnson nailing down the #1 & #2 spots and with Zach being younger than Spencer, the writing was on the wall. And with a new 4* QB arriving in the fall and another 4* QB committed for next year, the competition for the starting slot was only going to get more intense. It's the way of the world today; kids who don't make the top two rotation don't really care about the school, they want to play and so transfer to a place where they believe they have a better shot at playing. And for all we know Musgrave may have had a private conversation with Spencer telling him that Robby Rowell would play ahead of him. When I coached at JC level we rarely had more than 2 deep at any position because if you weren't top 2 then you weren't playing. I specifically remember we had a kid who played D-Line that couldn't crack our top 2 rotation so he went to a another JC where he ended up starting. He actually played well int the game against us, but he still wasn't good enough to crack our rotation. So, to respond to another comment, there is nothing wrong in the QB room, this is a result of a competition for playing time and a desire to get playing time over sitting on the bench. I wish Spencer well. I met his parents at the 'Lightning Game' at UW in 2019 and they were real nice people. I'm sure it was not an easy decision.
That's what I said.
Like others here, I see this as a credit to the coaches and QB room and team culture. We've got good depth, still, and will hit fall with better. Garbers will certainly miss a game or two, and we will see some drop off with any of them, as most teams would. As Cal recruits better and better skill players, we are going to get more guys who feel strongly they are good enough to play D1 at a high level. They will understandably leave when the Jermaine Terry's or Kai Milner's of the world show up and promise to get all the snaps for a few years.
In comparison, Austin Hinder, who chose Cal while holding an offer from Alabama, spent the entire time as a backup but never transferred. I think it just depends on the individual. Hinder seemed to be enjoying spending time with his Cal friends out here. His highlight was the Klindergoff competition in 2013.
Yup. Some guys want to play right away and bet on themselves. No shame in that.
Yeah I would read it that the staff is bullish on the future signal callers in addition to Garbers and Johnson, rather than a repudiation of Musgrave's offense. Time will tell.
I think we all know...
2 QBs in a couple of weeks. Yeah sumtin probably ain't right in that room.
Garbers Johnson and Rowell.
Brasch and Casey....gone!!!
Maybe Wilcox and Musgraves are straight up and honest with these guys. Maybe rather than stringing them along they just lay it out. Some guys stay because they like being part of the team and are in it for the education and recognize the reality of having to quit the game at some point.
They are and that's why their player's respect them.
Welp obviously they are straight up. Musgrave said Garbers #1 and ZJ #2, just the other day. One day later Brasch announces he's leaving.
I think he’s a guy who wants to play and those chances just decreased to an unacceptable level. We recruit guys that want to play and they all know the realities of the depth chart. I wouldn’t read anything into this about “the room” besides that.
Ehhhhh. If garbers is number 1. And the positive raves around Zach Johnson are real. They probably want a real chance to play now. Johnson was also the last QB suited up last season instead of Casey for the active Gameday roster. With Kai coming in the fall and Justyn the following year. They have healthy competition for the post-Garbers era. 2 4stars and a high 3star. They’re fine in the QB room.
Garbers has 2 years left with COVID +1, no?
If Cal goes 0-2 to start the season (Nevada won't be a pushover), and Garbers just plays so-so, would it be time to acknowledge that he's reached his limit and move on? Even if we're 2-0 and he plays well, I'd still like to see Wilcox sit Garbers, start Zach Johnson, and play him more than half of the Sac St game, preferably all of it. There's nothing like live snaps to get a backup/heir ready.
I believe so.
I mean Vince Ferragamo led Nebraska to victory in the Blue Bonnet bowl, then was picked in the 4th round and took the Rams to the Super Bowl. I think that's slightly more success than taking CW Post (which is a NAIA school) anywhere.
Interesting. Klein played behind Pat Barnes, who was drafted at the same level (110th overall vs Klein's 111th), and had a better NFL career. So it's not like Cal played the wrong guy.
And what an awful quarterback class in 1994 - there were 9 QBs picked:
Trent Dilfer, Heath Shuler, Perry Klein, Doug Nussmeier, Jim Miller, Gus Frerotte, Jay Walker, Steve Matthews and Glenn Foley.