I completely understand the Tosh hate, but am a little disappointed by it. Are we sure that a guy can’t be a better, more loyal and more mature person at 44 than he was at 30? I’m willing to accept that people can change/grow in 14 years. I’m also willing to accept that, as fans, we may not have gotten the entire story of what happened. I understand the hesitation but if this is the direction Ron goes, I’m going to put my faith in Ron that he has done his due diligence (talked to Saban, Tedford etc) and determined that Tosh is the best option.
This. Ron Rivera has more football knowledge and connections than all of us yahoos commenting on these W4C threads combined. If he feels Tosh is the best guy, then Tosh is the best guy. Given that this hire isn't being made by an AD who is a complete horse's ass, I finally have faith in the direction of the program. Ron set a standard and within 6 months of being on the job, made the much-needed leadership change, so he should have our full support to remedy this situation. I am sick and damn tired of struggling to even attain mediocrity. A guy took a new job 14 years ago. Yeah it sucks he did it as an alum. Yeah it sucks he took recruits with him. Yeah I hated him at the time. You know what I've hated more? Being a complete laughingstock for the majority of the following two regimes. Hire a winner, that's all I care about. "Whaaa but what if he screws us again?" Oh and leaves for more money at a bigger program? That would objectively be a good problem to have; IT WOULD MEAN HE CAME HERE AND WON.
I think he's a mystery now and the only thing we really know about him is from our experience with him. Like, what has he done to convince you that he is a more loyal person now? I mean, there are plenty of 70-80 year old scumbags in the world, who didn't become that way overnight.
Realizing I'd never heard this man speak before, I found a recent interview with him to see if I could get a sense of what he's like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGX4OhM7tew
He gives me "murderer" vibes.
With that said, I would not mind for him to give this program the boost it needs.
Thanks for sending this. Wow. He’s experienced, articulate, knows exactly what is needed and will not compromise. That’s what I get from this video. He also is reputed to be a hell of a recruiter (which has always been huge factor and now more than ever in age of NIL) and as a former D lineman he will get what we need in both sides of the trenches. Plus, he looks like a recruiting poster for the Marines with that square jaw. He’s put in the work and time as an assistant coach. IMO Cal would be foolish not to hire him. Go Bears!
Yep, we don’t know anything for certain. Just going to trust that, if this is the way they go, there isn’t a clown making the decisions anymore and Ron probably knows a lot more than I do.
Thanks for this link...totally different vibe than the "we trust the process" talk we would get from Wilcox. It was, "we fucking expect the best or your sit"...also love his granular understanding of each of the players and that he answered every question with specificity rather than platitudes. He would certainly inject a new level of energy and very high expectations based on this one view of him. Does that translate to victory on the field, and overcome the concerns so eloquently expressed in this thread? That's why we have Ron to answer that question.
He definitely knows his players, has high standards, and hopefully that would translate to offensive players as well.
The key would be (as others have said) is he would need really good, experienced Offense and Defensive Coordinators. Those hires would be crucial.. and I trust Ron to get it right.
What a BS take. Cal was finally on a streak where they were in the national conversation every year. Tosh tanked another great recruiting class that featured Shaq Thompson, and Cal hasn't been the same since.
1. A collective, centrally planned coaching committee. Cal is 18-4 without a head coach in it's history (research done by W4C) and there's no better school to launch a coaching commune, 5 year planned football game plan.
2. A coven of etsy witches, hired weekly.
3. Twitch polls for each play and each down. (But danger of continually getting delay of game penalties)
4. Ken Dorsey can move back in with his parents in Moraga. (I do know that he grew up a Cal fan and would have considered Cal, but didn't even get a look from Holmoe)
Dimissing Tosh out-of-hand is stupid. He's the most accomplished Cal alum in the current coaching ranks. He's in the Tedford, Sarkisian, Saban, Lanning coaching tree with NFL experience to boot. Winning is partly (or mostly) about attracting top-level talent. We had the nice guy for nine years and where did that get us?
What happened in 2011 sucked and was made worse by the fact that he was one of our own. But that was also a long time ago. Let's give him a generous three year contract and see what he can do. He's our best hope.
One could also argue that dismissing out-of-had the many Cal alumni who hate Tosh is also stupid. A lot of people will be pissed off if he's hired and the program needs happy Bear backers.
My feeling is that Tosh is going to need to produce results faster than anyone else on the list in order to keep the alumni. If he can do that, and he is aware of this elevated standard, I am willing to give it a shot.
If they hire Tosh then I’m walking away from CAL football. He’s not a great Coach. Recruiting ability matters less than NIL $$ these days, and I don’t believe this guy is a good guy. When he fails CAL will have to deal with a bad situation.
I think you're taking that a bit seriously, you're not really responsible for any of it. The thing about burning bridges like Tosh did, is that you completely remove yourself from any agency from repercussions. There will be people who will accept you back, and there are people that won't. It has nothing to do with perception. The fact of the matter is that he was purposefully killing Cal recruiting while still taking our salary. No matter how hurt he was, even if he was thrown under the bus, that shows an ethical boundary that most of society isn't willing to cross. If he was that pissed, his option was to quit and join UW earlier.
If he eventually gets hired, he's going to have to win everyone back. But I'm going to be honest -- I'm feeling actively repulsed that it feels like there's no other future based on the surge of conversation around him.
Edit: Hiring Tosh doesn't feel like a new era of Cal football. It just feels like more of the same.
Walk away from Cal football? They'd have to hire Mack Brown for me to do that. Anyone else is going to get my benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to sweat stuff that happened 14 years ago. I'm not proud of everything I did 14 years ago, either, and each of us is entitled to grow.
Even in the unlikely scenario that Tosh hasn't changed a bit in 14 years while working for truly great coaches, if I'm being honest, I sorta like the idea of someone willing to get in the mud if he's doing it for us. College football is dirty pool, sometimes. If Tosh is the pick, I'm all in.
i'm this way now. means to an end.. and it's imperative that we have some short term success now, if we're serious about wanting to continue to play in the big league.
Respectfully, we're already in the midst of a very bad situation. We hung onto a losing coach for 9 seasons, routinely have under 30k in the stadium, got caught flat-footed and completely unprepared for conference realignment, had to be dragged into the ACC by our rivals, and basically have one more chance to get it right before we're relegated to the group of 6 and have our olympic sports legacy nuked. I don't think any one of us on this thread is more qualified than Ron Rivera to make this hire. I trust Ron completely whether he decides it's Tosh or someone else.
I've gotten into arguments in the stadium with some of these people. There is a contingent of the fanbase (hopefully small in number) who seem to relish the lovable losers stigma. "He develops quality young men" is one response I heard in defense of Wilcox. There is a fundamental lack of understanding in how this modern era of major college football functions, and the detrimental effect on the rest of the athletic department that will come with accepting our existence in football purgatory. These people just do not grasp the fact that Wilcox was making $5 mil a year TO WIN. This ain't intramurals. This ain't volunteer work. This ain't a boy scout summer camp. Ron's introduction of standards and expectations is a breath of fresh air, and holy shit is it overdue. I suppose it's very jarring and alarming to these people that we have alignment with the university administration (God bless you, Rich Lyons) and are actually trying.
My uncle and I chat about it when we get together at family functions because I’m usually headed to/just returned from a game. He’s a lifelong Bay Area guy, and while not an alum, he’s certainly a solid Cal and all-around sports fan.
God bless him but he’s still looking at a bowl bid as the mark of a highly successful season and is incredulous when I say 6-6 with a low-level bowl a week before Xmas that kids opt out of is really nothing to be excited about given all that’s at stake. Sigh.
I could be your uncle ("and while not an alum, he’s certainly a solid Cal and all-around sports fan") I no longer share his view. I believe IF Cal can consistently be one of the top public universities, THEN Cal can have a winning football program.
I was a fan of Ron Rivera the Cal LB, and now I’m a fan of Ron Rivera the Cal GM. I trust in Ron. Go Bears!
I'm with you on this one. I've been here since the last year of the Bruce Snyder regime (although I was considerably less gray and paunchy) and even when the coaches failed I never hated them or resented them. I was also there when Tosh left Cal and recruited from them as he did. Yes people grow from mistakes, but I don't recall him expressing regret for the manner in which he left. Aso, just because people make mistakes when they are younger, doesn't mean you don't or shouldn't hold resentments. That being said, I'm speaking more to a ethical standard than professional one - and hoping that we can have both.
Just not sure about Tosh’s coaching acumen. Would need a deeper dive. He does seem like a person who would have no problem burning Cal for his personal benefit. And by burning, I mean bad behavior that could get the program probation. Then we’re cooked.
Yeah those two are good examples, and the Michigan one is particularly bad in terms of the financial penalty, but I'm just far less worried about those things with the new structure of football programs with the general manager position for oversight. What were the allegations against Tosh at Washington, that he paid for a recruit's tutoring and online classes like 12 years ago? Ok, dumb, but you're not gonna convince me he's the devil because of it. If I'm not mistaken there have been no allegations since.
"Just not sure about Tosh’s coaching acumen". I guess being the play caller on defense for Oregon that has been 9th, 16th and is currently 8th in the nation in points allowed the last 3 seasons doesn't mean much.
Fair enough, I am pretty tired of the "but Saban demoted him a thousand years ago so therefore he sucks" mantra many have been repeating ad nauseum on here. So I mistook your comment in that vein. Apologies...
re: HC acumen, a modern head coach's main duties are setting culture and hiring a competent staff. Recruiting/being the face of the program is a big plus also. Tosh definitely has the third point and based on his resume and interviews, he very likely has the first. The big question for me is the hiring of his staff...we can but wait and see assuming he is the choice (and I would be shocked if he isn't)
Lanning recently stated in an article that they have an environment where coaches want to stay. He makes $2M a year as a DC and lives in Eugene so financially there isnt a push. Maybe he was waiting for the right situation, maybe he felt like he had more to learn before taking the plunge, who knows. But he is only 44, thats a pretty straightforward age to become an HC for the first time unless you're a wonderkid. Cignetti was 50 or something like that for his first HC job and that was at some tiny D2 or 3 school in Pennsylvania. So...shrug
Programs are looking for the next Cignetti, coaches who have track records of winning wherever they go. Cignetti was doing amazing things as the head coach of schools no one has ever heard of. He was hired at Indiana, a program with a long history of losing. He will now have them going to the college playoffs for the second year in a row. It would be good for Cal to give serious consideration to guys like Bob Chesney and Jason Eck, guys who can do amazing things if given the chance to (even if they only have experience at P5 programs).
Seconding this. I’d rather see a successful HC coming from a lower level. Someone who has already run a program and worked under constraints. I’m not sure coordinator jobs at already successful programs are the right experience.
DeBoer and Peterson were also of that mould prior to coaching at UW.
“You don’t make peace with friends, you make it with enemies.” - Yitzhakn Rabin.
What better way for Tosh to make amends with Cal and its supporters than to take its football team to the next level. Tedford and Tosh have resolved their issues, who are we (fanatical bystanders to the situation) to pass judgement on a moment that happened 14 years ago. Ron will do his due diligence, if Tosh’s references give their blessing, why wouldn’t Cal give him a fair opportunity for the HC role (and a shot at redemption).
“Never put too much trust in friends, learn how to use enemies” - Rule 2, 48 Laws of Power.
View relationships objectively. Maybe Tosh will prove his loyalty even more so since the institution and fanbase know his history. Maybe the need to repay his “deb” will drive his enthusiasm to make right from what was wrong. We will never know until Tosh gets the opportunity to do so.
I will not be disgruntled if he is hired, rather, I would be intrigued. I will not walk away from my Cal fandom because of coach or because of his past. One thing is true and rains constant; whoever is chosen to be HC, the administration, the donors, the alumnus, the students, and the casuals need to provide their full support for Cal to survicd relegation and conference re-alignment.
TL;DR: I wouldn’t mind Tosh. I think he’s a great hire for this modern college football environment. My second choice would be Dan Mullen and my third choice would be Jack Eck. Fiat Lux and Go Bears!
My first choice is anyone not named Tosh. Beyond that Jason Eck seems the most Curt Cignetti-like. I like an offensive-minded candidate who has head coaching experience.
He’s got a tough job to get this hire right. There’s no one else that I would want with this responsibility right now other than Ron. Imagine if we still had Knowlton in charge and be thankful he’s not. Probably would be looking to form some high-priced search committee for the next 6 months.
Just watched the press availability with RR and Coach Rolovich. Very impressed with both of these guys. We are so lucky to have Ron Rivera as GM. It's clear that Coach Wilcox was loved by the players and staff and it would be a good tribute to him if the Bears can notch a win on Saturday.
I like what Coach Rolovich said, and he definitely fills one of the criteria that RR is looking for in the next head coach - someone who wants to be at Cal and understands the culture here.
RR said he doesn't need a search committee because of his connections in the coaching world and he already has a list of 14 names and growing. That makes me wonder if there are some NFL assistant coaches on the list - a category that has been overlooked by some.
Sure, Rolovich comes across smooth in an interview. However in my opinion Rolovich would be the wrong hire for the University of California, Berkeley. Cal, a world class place for learning of all kinds, is among other things an institution at the cutting edge of coronavirus vaccine research. I don’t think Rolovich being the highest paid employee (by orders of magnitude, the way HC salaries are these days) at Berkeley would play at all well with the faculty and administration. His behavior around the Washington State fiasco left many folks mystified and angry. He revealed himself to be a Covid vaccine conspiracy theorist, implying Bill Gates was somehow involved in the conspiracy, etc. He sued the state for 25 million dollars, and lost. I recall the court found his claim of religious exemption from taking a Covid vaccine to be completely bogus. The court ruled his termination was absolutely justified per the rules state employees were bound by. What happens when some kerfuffle at Cal occurs (which invariably happens, especially in a place like this)? Ask yourself if this is the guy you want at the helm.
Would I want a man who walked away from a multi-million-dollar head coaching position to defend his principles be a coach at Cal? Absolutely, this is exactly the kind of man who can inspire and lead our student athletes.
Much better than a man whose morals and ethics were still evolving at age 30 and who should be given a second chance, according to many on this forum.
Blackball the guy with principles and give the job to a guy with no principles. That is not the kind of program I want to see at Cal.
Everyone is talking about needing a guy who can do more with less. Make no mistake our next coach will be expected to do more with more. Ron Rivera and Rich Lyons are raising money at 3 times the rate of Jim Knowlton and Carol. The donors were on strike last portal season. Every other year of the NIL era we've had top 20 transfer classes via 247, and that was with Knowlton. I want a coach who knows how to coach and recruit high level talent. I love the development of far flung guys, and low recruits, but we won't be needing to operate that way these next 2 seasons, and we saw where that got us these past 9 years. If that means Tosh is the guy then we need to sack up and get behind him. This is not the time for hand wringing over integrity/morality/etc, this is the time for wins. And if Ron is confident in him, then I am too. A lot of things are in place that may never be in place again for us. We need to take a leap of faith and win in the next 2-3 years or we're gone. If that means taking a guy who might have a wandering eye after saving us in realignment then that is a necessary evil I'm willing to take. Make no mistake this is win now mode, and we have the money to make it happen.
Well said pal...reading all the looks into the psyche of the Cal fan on this thread has been enlightening. I'm arriving at the same conclusion you have reached. Bottom line, trust in Rich and Ron right now as this is our only path to glorious victory.
This is by the way why my first choice would be Eck. I do think head coaching experience is important (but Ron would
Know more than I do!) especially in apposition leading teams that had no business winning they way they were under his leadership. Eck seems to have an eye for talent and has turned around a program not once but twice. If we’re looking for our Cignetti, look no further than Jason Eck
I think the “less” part is relative to other P4 programs, not relative to Cal’s historical investments. I acknowledge the university is doing what it should to raise capital and invest in the program as a driver of the university’s profile - which is itself a radial shift.
But let’s not kid ourselves, the next coach will definitely need to be extremely adept at strategic bets unlike a coach at, say, Oregon or Bama where the cash spigot never runs dry.
F Tosh. His true allegiance is to himself, not his mentor (Tedford), not his team, not his alma mater. He'll either burn Cal by being a horrible HC (and as Rugbear has observed, this is most likely), or he'll bolt for another program if he somehow finds success at Cal.
Fortune favors the bold. Hire DeSean Jackson. He turned around a moribund program in one year. He would bring excitement to recruits and alums and would bring real buzz to the program. So what if he only has one year of "real" experience. His 15-year NFL career is worth a lot, he would have great guidance from Ron Rivera, and he would be able to hire more seasoned coordinators. Hire Jackson now, because he won't be available 2-3 years from now.
Every coach's responsibility is to himself. Justin Wilcox interviewed at Oregon. Sonny Dykes didn't get support and went looking for places he'd get it. Jeff Tedford stayed when we made him one of the highest-paid coaches in college football.
Either Cal needs to attempt to be serious, or we need to prepare for relegation. Desean is a much bigger risk at this point than Tosh.
How is going for Tosh showing that we're serious? It feels like going for Tosh is showing that we're not ready to play with the big boys so we're still taking baby steps.
I'm guessing that Rivera realizes that Tosh would be a divisive hire at a time when the Cal sports community needs unity so he'll probably pass on him. Least I hope that to be the case.
I really don’t think he’d be that divisive outside of the small minority of folks who have not moved on from an incident 14 years ago. Didn’t Tedford forgive him? Why are we feigning victimhood over a non-issue? We need a winner folks. Get in.
I hope so! Tosh is carrying lots of baggage at Cal! The fact that he and Tedford are good now is a tribute to Jeff Tedford and his moral code of ethics; whereas, Tosh has demonstrated his lack of ethics entirely! Want a coach we can trust! No second chance here!
We obviously need a coach who has demonstrated that he can take an unexceptional, losing program and turn it around a la Indiana, a program builder who can attract a solid team of assistants and who can also recruit great players. Someone who can bring a group of experienced players with him would be a bonus, especially if it includes, oh I don’t know, OL players as big as refrigerators, WR’s who can actually catch the ball, running backs like Chuck Muncie and a DL that pushes people right into the QB. Oh, and à center who can actually hike the ball accurately and a place kicker who can make 40+ yd field goals. I will not name the dispensary that sold me the stuff I’m smoking. God help whomever takes this job. Light the candles, burn the incense, run up the Tibetan prayer flags and hope Ron can attract a really great coach!
Eck has done an impressive job at New Mexico. Bronco Mendehall left New Mexico to Utah State with a bunch of players. No one wanted the job. Eck was hired at a place with few resources, has them going bowling for the first time since 2016, and he beat Mendehall's Utah State team. Hiring a guy who can do more with less would be a benefit to Cal.
While I have reservations about Tosh, they're entirely rooted in the emotion of 2011, which just doesn't sting like it used to. There are valid concerns that he's been a recruiter-first coach whose defenses were truly run by his bosses, and only time will tell on that, but experience at Alabama, Oregon, and the NFL... How could we expect more from a realistic candidate? And he's a universally lauded recruiter from Cal and the East Bay - name a coach who could sell Cal better. He's an objectively good candidate for the job, and a better one than Wilcox and Dykes were. He did a shady thing in a shady business a long time ago, so let's hear him out if it comes to it. He and Ron will have to address his prior departure, but I'm pretty sure they'll have a good answer to that, so if the powers that be pick Tosh then I think it would be a shot in the arm and an immediate boon on the recruiting trail with tons of upside and a terrible worst case outcome. We'll see what happens, but I'll be excited about our chances, and would love to see Tosh recruit a team around JKS. Best of luck to Cal football
Why would Tosh choose Cal? I’m sure he’s aware of some Alum’s hate for him and how he left the program. Cal’s not a top tier program, lacks the support compared to schools that love their football and most likely will have to rebuild. The only reason for him that I can think of is to get that HC job to prove his worth and then move on. That said, if he can give us 7-10 wins per year for 3-4 years and he bolts, I’m ok with that. Maybe we can use him for a change.
Same. So many posters here are terrified of their coach getting poached or being a stepping stone program, whereas I'm very open to it because that means we had some success in the first place.
I'll absolutely take being a stepping stone job over a job that is known for being comfortable with mediocrity.
I think it's just the newness of the era we're in now. In the past, a head coach was everything. Now we have an awesome GM and institutional support, which majorly changes the HC's purpose and profile, and allows "the program" to really be bigger than one coach. So we have some flexibility in the near term.
We're tangibly beginning to experience the "new era" here at Cal this year, and it's possible the program is on the cusp of navigating it well.
It's pretty exciting when you think about it. The transparency and insight you get from a GM has been refreshing, and the feeling that the fan base is being heard, makes me think the future is bright.
It’s so infuriating how many fans don’t get this!! Nah let’s go for the mid hire so we have a 7-5 ceiling and keep a comfortably mediocre coach in Berkeley. Wtf?!
Because he played for Cal, which his Dad also coached for, and which was his hometown team growing up. He could be part of saving Cal football at its darkest hour. The story writes itself. He may use Cal as a stepping stone just like any other coach, but there's a plausible case to him staying home even if he is wildly successful.
I completely understand the Tosh hate, but am a little disappointed by it. Are we sure that a guy can’t be a better, more loyal and more mature person at 44 than he was at 30? I’m willing to accept that people can change/grow in 14 years. I’m also willing to accept that, as fans, we may not have gotten the entire story of what happened. I understand the hesitation but if this is the direction Ron goes, I’m going to put my faith in Ron that he has done his due diligence (talked to Saban, Tedford etc) and determined that Tosh is the best option.
This. Ron Rivera has more football knowledge and connections than all of us yahoos commenting on these W4C threads combined. If he feels Tosh is the best guy, then Tosh is the best guy. Given that this hire isn't being made by an AD who is a complete horse's ass, I finally have faith in the direction of the program. Ron set a standard and within 6 months of being on the job, made the much-needed leadership change, so he should have our full support to remedy this situation. I am sick and damn tired of struggling to even attain mediocrity. A guy took a new job 14 years ago. Yeah it sucks he did it as an alum. Yeah it sucks he took recruits with him. Yeah I hated him at the time. You know what I've hated more? Being a complete laughingstock for the majority of the following two regimes. Hire a winner, that's all I care about. "Whaaa but what if he screws us again?" Oh and leaves for more money at a bigger program? That would objectively be a good problem to have; IT WOULD MEAN HE CAME HERE AND WON.
Winning is absolutely the single most important thing right now.
8-9 win seasons should be the norm…if Wake Forest can do it, so can Cal.
I think he's a mystery now and the only thing we really know about him is from our experience with him. Like, what has he done to convince you that he is a more loyal person now? I mean, there are plenty of 70-80 year old scumbags in the world, who didn't become that way overnight.
Realizing I'd never heard this man speak before, I found a recent interview with him to see if I could get a sense of what he's like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGX4OhM7tew
He gives me "murderer" vibes.
With that said, I would not mind for him to give this program the boost it needs.
Thanks for sending this. Wow. He’s experienced, articulate, knows exactly what is needed and will not compromise. That’s what I get from this video. He also is reputed to be a hell of a recruiter (which has always been huge factor and now more than ever in age of NIL) and as a former D lineman he will get what we need in both sides of the trenches. Plus, he looks like a recruiting poster for the Marines with that square jaw. He’s put in the work and time as an assistant coach. IMO Cal would be foolish not to hire him. Go Bears!
Yep, we don’t know anything for certain. Just going to trust that, if this is the way they go, there isn’t a clown making the decisions anymore and Ron probably knows a lot more than I do.
Thanks for this link...totally different vibe than the "we trust the process" talk we would get from Wilcox. It was, "we fucking expect the best or your sit"...also love his granular understanding of each of the players and that he answered every question with specificity rather than platitudes. He would certainly inject a new level of energy and very high expectations based on this one view of him. Does that translate to victory on the field, and overcome the concerns so eloquently expressed in this thread? That's why we have Ron to answer that question.
He definitely knows his players, has high standards, and hopefully that would translate to offensive players as well.
The key would be (as others have said) is he would need really good, experienced Offense and Defensive Coordinators. Those hires would be crucial.. and I trust Ron to get it right.
I watched your video link and heard him talk for the first time. He sounds so young. He also sounds kinda like Wilcox.
I feel like holding a grudge is an expensive luxury we can't afford
It's beyond a grudge at this point - it's half-informed folk that have one talking point that they can't let go of...
What a BS take. Cal was finally on a streak where they were in the national conversation every year. Tosh tanked another great recruiting class that featured Shaq Thompson, and Cal hasn't been the same since.
Exactly. Snakes regularly shed their skins. Guess what? They are still snakes.
ding ding ding
A grudge is a luxury. Remembering clearly how someone screwed you over is not a grudge.
My big board:
1. A collective, centrally planned coaching committee. Cal is 18-4 without a head coach in it's history (research done by W4C) and there's no better school to launch a coaching commune, 5 year planned football game plan.
2. A coven of etsy witches, hired weekly.
3. Twitch polls for each play and each down. (But danger of continually getting delay of game penalties)
4. Ken Dorsey can move back in with his parents in Moraga. (I do know that he grew up a Cal fan and would have considered Cal, but didn't even get a look from Holmoe)
Dimissing Tosh out-of-hand is stupid. He's the most accomplished Cal alum in the current coaching ranks. He's in the Tedford, Sarkisian, Saban, Lanning coaching tree with NFL experience to boot. Winning is partly (or mostly) about attracting top-level talent. We had the nice guy for nine years and where did that get us?
What happened in 2011 sucked and was made worse by the fact that he was one of our own. But that was also a long time ago. Let's give him a generous three year contract and see what he can do. He's our best hope.
One could also argue that dismissing out-of-had the many Cal alumni who hate Tosh is also stupid. A lot of people will be pissed off if he's hired and the program needs happy Bear backers.
Unless those people are big time donors what's the big deal? If we start winning most of the anti-Tosh crowd will be back anyway.
I agree. Most of the people who hate Tosh are the ones who really care about Cal football. They will be back in no time if we start winning.
(I'm not saying Tosh will be successful. We don't know that part.)
Machiavellian but true. Put me solidly in this camp. I would be displeased and angry. But if we start winning, I’ll be happy again.
My feeling is that Tosh is going to need to produce results faster than anyone else on the list in order to keep the alumni. If he can do that, and he is aware of this elevated standard, I am willing to give it a shot.
If they hire Tosh then I’m walking away from CAL football. He’s not a great Coach. Recruiting ability matters less than NIL $$ these days, and I don’t believe this guy is a good guy. When he fails CAL will have to deal with a bad situation.
I'll have some thoughts on this later this week, since I am partly responsible for this perception.
I think you're taking that a bit seriously, you're not really responsible for any of it. The thing about burning bridges like Tosh did, is that you completely remove yourself from any agency from repercussions. There will be people who will accept you back, and there are people that won't. It has nothing to do with perception. The fact of the matter is that he was purposefully killing Cal recruiting while still taking our salary. No matter how hurt he was, even if he was thrown under the bus, that shows an ethical boundary that most of society isn't willing to cross. If he was that pissed, his option was to quit and join UW earlier.
If he eventually gets hired, he's going to have to win everyone back. But I'm going to be honest -- I'm feeling actively repulsed that it feels like there's no other future based on the surge of conversation around him.
Edit: Hiring Tosh doesn't feel like a new era of Cal football. It just feels like more of the same.
A lot of what I said was taken from one side of the story. There are other sides.
I agree with this statement.
Tosh doesn't feel like a new era of Cal football. It just feels like more of the same.
Hiring a previous coach just does not excite me. If he's been a successful HC, maybe it's different.
Walk away from Cal football? They'd have to hire Mack Brown for me to do that. Anyone else is going to get my benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to sweat stuff that happened 14 years ago. I'm not proud of everything I did 14 years ago, either, and each of us is entitled to grow.
Even in the unlikely scenario that Tosh hasn't changed a bit in 14 years while working for truly great coaches, if I'm being honest, I sorta like the idea of someone willing to get in the mud if he's doing it for us. College football is dirty pool, sometimes. If Tosh is the pick, I'm all in.
Well, Rugbear already walked away from Cal football once recently. He became a Rugdawg.
When was that? Was that when we fired Tedford? Or Dykes? I forgot what incident.
i'm this way now. means to an end.. and it's imperative that we have some short term success now, if we're serious about wanting to continue to play in the big league.
Respectfully, we're already in the midst of a very bad situation. We hung onto a losing coach for 9 seasons, routinely have under 30k in the stadium, got caught flat-footed and completely unprepared for conference realignment, had to be dragged into the ACC by our rivals, and basically have one more chance to get it right before we're relegated to the group of 6 and have our olympic sports legacy nuked. I don't think any one of us on this thread is more qualified than Ron Rivera to make this hire. I trust Ron completely whether he decides it's Tosh or someone else.
Still fear the majority of Cal fans out in the world think it’s just business as usual and do not fully understand all that is at stake. It’s dire….
I saw some comments on the Instagram posts who were criticizing Rivera of the decision to fire Wilcox and how Rivera lost all the respect.
And those weren't sarcasm. 🙄
I've gotten into arguments in the stadium with some of these people. There is a contingent of the fanbase (hopefully small in number) who seem to relish the lovable losers stigma. "He develops quality young men" is one response I heard in defense of Wilcox. There is a fundamental lack of understanding in how this modern era of major college football functions, and the detrimental effect on the rest of the athletic department that will come with accepting our existence in football purgatory. These people just do not grasp the fact that Wilcox was making $5 mil a year TO WIN. This ain't intramurals. This ain't volunteer work. This ain't a boy scout summer camp. Ron's introduction of standards and expectations is a breath of fresh air, and holy shit is it overdue. I suppose it's very jarring and alarming to these people that we have alignment with the university administration (God bless you, Rich Lyons) and are actually trying.
My uncle and I chat about it when we get together at family functions because I’m usually headed to/just returned from a game. He’s a lifelong Bay Area guy, and while not an alum, he’s certainly a solid Cal and all-around sports fan.
God bless him but he’s still looking at a bowl bid as the mark of a highly successful season and is incredulous when I say 6-6 with a low-level bowl a week before Xmas that kids opt out of is really nothing to be excited about given all that’s at stake. Sigh.
I could be your uncle ("and while not an alum, he’s certainly a solid Cal and all-around sports fan") I no longer share his view. I believe IF Cal can consistently be one of the top public universities, THEN Cal can have a winning football program.
I was a fan of Ron Rivera the Cal LB, and now I’m a fan of Ron Rivera the Cal GM. I trust in Ron. Go Bears!
Completely untrustworthy guy. If he gets hired, I'll be wondering what other jobs he's trying to get.
Ehh, the only kinds of coaches you don't have to worry about that for are the coaches that suck.
We've differed on many issues but here I'm in complete agreement with you.
I'm with you on this one. I've been here since the last year of the Bruce Snyder regime (although I was considerably less gray and paunchy) and even when the coaches failed I never hated them or resented them. I was also there when Tosh left Cal and recruited from them as he did. Yes people grow from mistakes, but I don't recall him expressing regret for the manner in which he left. Aso, just because people make mistakes when they are younger, doesn't mean you don't or shouldn't hold resentments. That being said, I'm speaking more to a ethical standard than professional one - and hoping that we can have both.
Just not sure about Tosh’s coaching acumen. Would need a deeper dive. He does seem like a person who would have no problem burning Cal for his personal benefit. And by burning, I mean bad behavior that could get the program probation. Then we’re cooked.
Tougher to get probation nowadays.
Lol, this... what, are we gonna pay our players or something?
Tell that to Mich St, Michigan, etc. It can happen with the wrong person in charge. True, it is harder these days.
Yeah those two are good examples, and the Michigan one is particularly bad in terms of the financial penalty, but I'm just far less worried about those things with the new structure of football programs with the general manager position for oversight. What were the allegations against Tosh at Washington, that he paid for a recruit's tutoring and online classes like 12 years ago? Ok, dumb, but you're not gonna convince me he's the devil because of it. If I'm not mistaken there have been no allegations since.
"Just not sure about Tosh’s coaching acumen". I guess being the play caller on defense for Oregon that has been 9th, 16th and is currently 8th in the nation in points allowed the last 3 seasons doesn't mean much.
Head Coaching ability. At least that’s the position we were going to hire him for. Big difference being a coordinator and a HC
Fair enough, I am pretty tired of the "but Saban demoted him a thousand years ago so therefore he sucks" mantra many have been repeating ad nauseum on here. So I mistook your comment in that vein. Apologies...
re: HC acumen, a modern head coach's main duties are setting culture and hiring a competent staff. Recruiting/being the face of the program is a big plus also. Tosh definitely has the third point and based on his resume and interviews, he very likely has the first. The big question for me is the hiring of his staff...we can but wait and see assuming he is the choice (and I would be shocked if he isn't)
It is a bit surprising that he hasn't been a HC yet after all these years of him being on the rise. You would think someone would give him a shot.
Lanning recently stated in an article that they have an environment where coaches want to stay. He makes $2M a year as a DC and lives in Eugene so financially there isnt a push. Maybe he was waiting for the right situation, maybe he felt like he had more to learn before taking the plunge, who knows. But he is only 44, thats a pretty straightforward age to become an HC for the first time unless you're a wonderkid. Cignetti was 50 or something like that for his first HC job and that was at some tiny D2 or 3 school in Pennsylvania. So...shrug
I'm with you on the bad guy/ don't trust him feeling.. But I think recruiting still very much matters.
I don't know how much of an impact he has now that the age gap between HS kids and Tosh is increasing, and it's all about the money now.
I think the same kind of persuasion/draw is needed to attract talent that could be getting the same money elsewhere.
Same with keeping them from entering the portal and going somewhere else for the same money.
Sort of like competing for talent in any job market and all the factors that go into choosing a job
Agreed. He's dead to me
Programs are looking for the next Cignetti, coaches who have track records of winning wherever they go. Cignetti was doing amazing things as the head coach of schools no one has ever heard of. He was hired at Indiana, a program with a long history of losing. He will now have them going to the college playoffs for the second year in a row. It would be good for Cal to give serious consideration to guys like Bob Chesney and Jason Eck, guys who can do amazing things if given the chance to (even if they only have experience at P5 programs).
Seconding this. I’d rather see a successful HC coming from a lower level. Someone who has already run a program and worked under constraints. I’m not sure coordinator jobs at already successful programs are the right experience.
DeBoer and Peterson were also of that mould prior to coaching at UW.
“You don’t make peace with friends, you make it with enemies.” - Yitzhakn Rabin.
What better way for Tosh to make amends with Cal and its supporters than to take its football team to the next level. Tedford and Tosh have resolved their issues, who are we (fanatical bystanders to the situation) to pass judgement on a moment that happened 14 years ago. Ron will do his due diligence, if Tosh’s references give their blessing, why wouldn’t Cal give him a fair opportunity for the HC role (and a shot at redemption).
“Never put too much trust in friends, learn how to use enemies” - Rule 2, 48 Laws of Power.
View relationships objectively. Maybe Tosh will prove his loyalty even more so since the institution and fanbase know his history. Maybe the need to repay his “deb” will drive his enthusiasm to make right from what was wrong. We will never know until Tosh gets the opportunity to do so.
I will not be disgruntled if he is hired, rather, I would be intrigued. I will not walk away from my Cal fandom because of coach or because of his past. One thing is true and rains constant; whoever is chosen to be HC, the administration, the donors, the alumnus, the students, and the casuals need to provide their full support for Cal to survicd relegation and conference re-alignment.
TL;DR: I wouldn’t mind Tosh. I think he’s a great hire for this modern college football environment. My second choice would be Dan Mullen and my third choice would be Jack Eck. Fiat Lux and Go Bears!
"fanatical bystanders" - I love it
My first choice is anyone not named Tosh. Beyond that Jason Eck seems the most Curt Cignetti-like. I like an offensive-minded candidate who has head coaching experience.
I have complete confidence in Ron Rivera’s decision…we are very lucky to have him back.
his press conference today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S71XM0hAFBo
a couple things I liked..
- JKS appears to be a significant factor in the decision (5:03 and 8:08)
- They'll get input from former players in addition to the big donors
- No search firm. Ron's got his own list and rolodex (12:00)
He’s got a tough job to get this hire right. There’s no one else that I would want with this responsibility right now other than Ron. Imagine if we still had Knowlton in charge and be thankful he’s not. Probably would be looking to form some high-priced search committee for the next 6 months.
This hire gets a lot easier if a swath of the donor base starts giving generously again….
😱
Just watched the press availability with RR and Coach Rolovich. Very impressed with both of these guys. We are so lucky to have Ron Rivera as GM. It's clear that Coach Wilcox was loved by the players and staff and it would be a good tribute to him if the Bears can notch a win on Saturday.
I like what Coach Rolovich said, and he definitely fills one of the criteria that RR is looking for in the next head coach - someone who wants to be at Cal and understands the culture here.
RR said he doesn't need a search committee because of his connections in the coaching world and he already has a list of 14 names and growing. That makes me wonder if there are some NFL assistant coaches on the list - a category that has been overlooked by some.
Sure, Rolovich comes across smooth in an interview. However in my opinion Rolovich would be the wrong hire for the University of California, Berkeley. Cal, a world class place for learning of all kinds, is among other things an institution at the cutting edge of coronavirus vaccine research. I don’t think Rolovich being the highest paid employee (by orders of magnitude, the way HC salaries are these days) at Berkeley would play at all well with the faculty and administration. His behavior around the Washington State fiasco left many folks mystified and angry. He revealed himself to be a Covid vaccine conspiracy theorist, implying Bill Gates was somehow involved in the conspiracy, etc. He sued the state for 25 million dollars, and lost. I recall the court found his claim of religious exemption from taking a Covid vaccine to be completely bogus. The court ruled his termination was absolutely justified per the rules state employees were bound by. What happens when some kerfuffle at Cal occurs (which invariably happens, especially in a place like this)? Ask yourself if this is the guy you want at the helm.
Would I want a man who walked away from a multi-million-dollar head coaching position to defend his principles be a coach at Cal? Absolutely, this is exactly the kind of man who can inspire and lead our student athletes.
Much better than a man whose morals and ethics were still evolving at age 30 and who should be given a second chance, according to many on this forum.
Blackball the guy with principles and give the job to a guy with no principles. That is not the kind of program I want to see at Cal.
Everyone is talking about needing a guy who can do more with less. Make no mistake our next coach will be expected to do more with more. Ron Rivera and Rich Lyons are raising money at 3 times the rate of Jim Knowlton and Carol. The donors were on strike last portal season. Every other year of the NIL era we've had top 20 transfer classes via 247, and that was with Knowlton. I want a coach who knows how to coach and recruit high level talent. I love the development of far flung guys, and low recruits, but we won't be needing to operate that way these next 2 seasons, and we saw where that got us these past 9 years. If that means Tosh is the guy then we need to sack up and get behind him. This is not the time for hand wringing over integrity/morality/etc, this is the time for wins. And if Ron is confident in him, then I am too. A lot of things are in place that may never be in place again for us. We need to take a leap of faith and win in the next 2-3 years or we're gone. If that means taking a guy who might have a wandering eye after saving us in realignment then that is a necessary evil I'm willing to take. Make no mistake this is win now mode, and we have the money to make it happen.
Morality would be nice. We can have both. But I like your comment otherwise.
Well said pal...reading all the looks into the psyche of the Cal fan on this thread has been enlightening. I'm arriving at the same conclusion you have reached. Bottom line, trust in Rich and Ron right now as this is our only path to glorious victory.
This is by the way why my first choice would be Eck. I do think head coaching experience is important (but Ron would
Know more than I do!) especially in apposition leading teams that had no business winning they way they were under his leadership. Eck seems to have an eye for talent and has turned around a program not once but twice. If we’re looking for our Cignetti, look no further than Jason Eck
I think the “less” part is relative to other P4 programs, not relative to Cal’s historical investments. I acknowledge the university is doing what it should to raise capital and invest in the program as a driver of the university’s profile - which is itself a radial shift.
But let’s not kid ourselves, the next coach will definitely need to be extremely adept at strategic bets unlike a coach at, say, Oregon or Bama where the cash spigot never runs dry.
F Tosh. His true allegiance is to himself, not his mentor (Tedford), not his team, not his alma mater. He'll either burn Cal by being a horrible HC (and as Rugbear has observed, this is most likely), or he'll bolt for another program if he somehow finds success at Cal.
Fortune favors the bold. Hire DeSean Jackson. He turned around a moribund program in one year. He would bring excitement to recruits and alums and would bring real buzz to the program. So what if he only has one year of "real" experience. His 15-year NFL career is worth a lot, he would have great guidance from Ron Rivera, and he would be able to hire more seasoned coordinators. Hire Jackson now, because he won't be available 2-3 years from now.
Every coach's responsibility is to himself. Justin Wilcox interviewed at Oregon. Sonny Dykes didn't get support and went looking for places he'd get it. Jeff Tedford stayed when we made him one of the highest-paid coaches in college football.
Either Cal needs to attempt to be serious, or we need to prepare for relegation. Desean is a much bigger risk at this point than Tosh.
How is going for Tosh showing that we're serious? It feels like going for Tosh is showing that we're not ready to play with the big boys so we're still taking baby steps.
Who would be a more serious hire in your opinion and why?
Didn't Wilcox also interview at Arizona?
I'm guessing that Rivera realizes that Tosh would be a divisive hire at a time when the Cal sports community needs unity so he'll probably pass on him. Least I hope that to be the case.
This is very much not the case.
That's a damn shame.
I really don’t think he’d be that divisive outside of the small minority of folks who have not moved on from an incident 14 years ago. Didn’t Tedford forgive him? Why are we feigning victimhood over a non-issue? We need a winner folks. Get in.
seriously. I was as pissed as anyone 15 years ago but if JT has moved on then so should everyone else
I hope so! Tosh is carrying lots of baggage at Cal! The fact that he and Tedford are good now is a tribute to Jeff Tedford and his moral code of ethics; whereas, Tosh has demonstrated his lack of ethics entirely! Want a coach we can trust! No second chance here!
We obviously need a coach who has demonstrated that he can take an unexceptional, losing program and turn it around a la Indiana, a program builder who can attract a solid team of assistants and who can also recruit great players. Someone who can bring a group of experienced players with him would be a bonus, especially if it includes, oh I don’t know, OL players as big as refrigerators, WR’s who can actually catch the ball, running backs like Chuck Muncie and a DL that pushes people right into the QB. Oh, and à center who can actually hike the ball accurately and a place kicker who can make 40+ yd field goals. I will not name the dispensary that sold me the stuff I’m smoking. God help whomever takes this job. Light the candles, burn the incense, run up the Tibetan prayer flags and hope Ron can attract a really great coach!
Eck has done an impressive job at New Mexico. Bronco Mendehall left New Mexico to Utah State with a bunch of players. No one wanted the job. Eck was hired at a place with few resources, has them going bowling for the first time since 2016, and he beat Mendehall's Utah State team. Hiring a guy who can do more with less would be a benefit to Cal.
Agree… and he’s a former lineman I believe. Can use all the help there possible.
While I have reservations about Tosh, they're entirely rooted in the emotion of 2011, which just doesn't sting like it used to. There are valid concerns that he's been a recruiter-first coach whose defenses were truly run by his bosses, and only time will tell on that, but experience at Alabama, Oregon, and the NFL... How could we expect more from a realistic candidate? And he's a universally lauded recruiter from Cal and the East Bay - name a coach who could sell Cal better. He's an objectively good candidate for the job, and a better one than Wilcox and Dykes were. He did a shady thing in a shady business a long time ago, so let's hear him out if it comes to it. He and Ron will have to address his prior departure, but I'm pretty sure they'll have a good answer to that, so if the powers that be pick Tosh then I think it would be a shot in the arm and an immediate boon on the recruiting trail with tons of upside and a terrible worst case outcome. We'll see what happens, but I'll be excited about our chances, and would love to see Tosh recruit a team around JKS. Best of luck to Cal football
Why would Tosh choose Cal? I’m sure he’s aware of some Alum’s hate for him and how he left the program. Cal’s not a top tier program, lacks the support compared to schools that love their football and most likely will have to rebuild. The only reason for him that I can think of is to get that HC job to prove his worth and then move on. That said, if he can give us 7-10 wins per year for 3-4 years and he bolts, I’m ok with that. Maybe we can use him for a change.
Same. So many posters here are terrified of their coach getting poached or being a stepping stone program, whereas I'm very open to it because that means we had some success in the first place.
I'll absolutely take being a stepping stone job over a job that is known for being comfortable with mediocrity.
I think it's just the newness of the era we're in now. In the past, a head coach was everything. Now we have an awesome GM and institutional support, which majorly changes the HC's purpose and profile, and allows "the program" to really be bigger than one coach. So we have some flexibility in the near term.
We're tangibly beginning to experience the "new era" here at Cal this year, and it's possible the program is on the cusp of navigating it well.
It's pretty exciting when you think about it. The transparency and insight you get from a GM has been refreshing, and the feeling that the fan base is being heard, makes me think the future is bright.
It’s so infuriating how many fans don’t get this!! Nah let’s go for the mid hire so we have a 7-5 ceiling and keep a comfortably mediocre coach in Berkeley. Wtf?!
Because he played for Cal, which his Dad also coached for, and which was his hometown team growing up. He could be part of saving Cal football at its darkest hour. The story writes itself. He may use Cal as a stepping stone just like any other coach, but there's a plausible case to him staying home even if he is wildly successful.
Also, he "only" makes $1.7M/year now, so this would be a big raise.
Cal as of now will likely be looked at as a stepping stone job for any potential coach.
Especially if said coaching hire has zero head coaching experience.
Hey Rugbear, I guess we lost the Tosh Lupoi argument. Silver lining, Troy Taylor is NOT listed!