First thing I am going to say is thank you to Avi for the hard investigative work. The next thing I'm going to say is that all this talk about Harsin's personality is BS. All of these allegations about Harsin are from unamed sources. Why not ask Harsin directly and get his response? Until we have named sources or direct answers to questions from Harsin, all these allegations are just irresponsible rumors, and probably from disaffected players.
Different coaches have different styles. Wilcox has coached with Harsin and knows how Harsin coaches. If Harsin is too hard nosed for some players then so be it. Players don't run programs, coaches do. Tedford let the players run his program and look where it got him. We need a Kyle Whittingham or Nick Saban personality type at OC.
Maybe CAL is due for a culture shift. We certainly have not been as physical as I would like to see. When I think of over achieving teams that do well because they are physical, even with less talent than most of their competitors, I think of Utah. Their brand is physical, punch you in the mouth, football. Boise State used to have that reputation as well. Perhaps Harsin is trying to bring that back at CAL. If so I welcome it.
When I look at the reasons for Ott leaving, its pretty clear. He has one year to prove to the pros that he has game. By playing in the SEC he has an opportunity to showcase his skills at the top level of college football. And I'm sure Oklahoma paid him well. Ott has to do well this year or his pro aspirations will be damaged. He has a better chance to show well at Oklahoma against tougher competition, that's just a fact.
For Endries its the same thing. Instead of being part of a program still trying to figure out if a 3 star transfer QB from Ohio State will play or if a five star freshman QB with no experience will start, he is stepping onto a field where Texas is an SEC team that played in the Natty and has a 5 star generational talent at QB who has been groomed the last two years: Arch Manning. If the paycheck was equal it was an easy choice for Endries.
Not sure about Jett but I am assuming that because other three RB's were not considered as starter material and CAL will go back to the portal for RB talent, they most likely moved on to places where they think they will get a better shot at more playing time.
I'm not so worried about our RB or TE talent. We can do well if we have a big bruising and nasty o-line and a solid QB. The QB battle will be sorted out and I actually hope our freshman has a chance to step on the field, even if he will make mistakes early on; the kid just has too much talent.
I'm not as worried about the changes as everyone else. Ott had a tough year last year and while he is tough, he is not a physical RB. Jett is similar but he's smaller. Both have great speed. but sometimes you have to make 3 yards out of nothing as well as be a breakaway threat. I imagine
Harsin is looking for a talented RB willing to play like Cameron Skattebo.
If a new physical culture means we lose some guys, I'm ok with it. And I completely understand why Endries and Ott chased their pro dreams elsewhere and do not hold it against them.
Great players with pro dreams are always going to look for a better place to showcase their talents if the paycheck is equal (or better) at their new team.
Not sure I understand your Jet point. He would almost assuredly have been the starting RB on opening day if he had stayed. There is a giant hole in that backfield right now.
Not sure that's true. If we don't find a hard nosed RB in the Portal you are right, but I am guessing that no jobs were guaranteed and the coaches were clear about bringing in as much talent as possible to compete. I'm also fairly certain Griffin sat down with each of his RB's and told them what he expected and wanted. He did say that Jett was a hard worker and needed to continue on that path, but he never said Jett had a claim to anything. If Jett was the guaranteed starter, I don't think he would have looked for greener pastures. Do we even know where he ended up?
Jaivian looked really good in the spring game. Sure, don't promise anything, but it's hard not to see most pathways leading to him winning the starting job with Ott gone and a year of practice with this new unit under his belt. That is a very worrisome sign to hit eject on that, particularly when you're from Oakland.
I don't disagree. But a Spring game isn't a season in the ACC. We love our stars, but coaches understand the level of talent and dedication necessary to win at a P4 level. The hard truth is that maybe Jett didn't have what the coaches thought was the talent to be a top performer at RB in the ACC. This actually speaks fairly loud:
You just won't stop praising Harsin. Do you know him or have you observed his practices or his indoor player meetings? It seems Auburn got rid of him because he alienated many players. And, he didn't get another coaching job for two years and then Wilcox hired him.
No, I'm honest about Harsin as an offensive coach. And Auburn got rid of him because he didn't win. Look at his record at Boise State. He's from there and could recruit there. He never was even an assistant coach in the SEC. Hard to recruit in the SEC when you have no relationships. And, there are always going to be players who after the fact will talk bad about a coach. With sources being anonymous, I give the stories zero credibility other than some unhappy players that have sour grapes because they think they should have received more playing time. There is no team where this does situation not exist. Lastly, Wilcox knows him well and coached with him. I trust Wilcox's judgment because he has integrity as a Coach.
We lost our starting QB, starting RB, backup RB, all of our RBs, starting TE, and all of our starting WRs. These aren’t guys buried on the depth chart (although, we lost that to) who want a fresh start for more PT. These are guys that were going to get a lot of snaps.
Go back to my explanation of why they all left. The one I don’t understand is Mendoza. But hearing the rumors about how he was rough on JKS, maybe he was intimidated about a 5 star QB coming in as a freshman. I really don’t know, however.
Are you referring to the stories from his time at BSU and Auburn? Or the stories from here? Because the stories at Auburn were most certainly not anonymous. Hell, there was even a university investigation that got kicked off by the Derek Mason exit interview. And if he's as big of an asshole as folks at his previous stops make him out to be, I'd bet dollars to donuts that coming to Cal didn't magically turn him into a nice guy. Unless of course you're saying that there's a grand conspiracy smear campaign between players, staff, fans, boosters, and students who all want to sully the good name of Bryan Harsin? If even half the stories are true he'd still be one of the biggest assholes by a country mile.
Several good points and sounds logical for things that “may” happen. The only problem standing in the way is the last 8 years of Wilcox and his “actual” record of achievement (or lack there of). He just doesn’t make the right choices in many areas.
So how many tries does Wilcox get?
It gets old after so many years of the same results.
Wilcox did show steady improvement until Covid, and then we had huge setbacks in recruiting. Remember, McCade Mettauer left because he was frustrated with the whole California/Berkeley management of Covid. He went to Oklahoma, started and is now playing in the NFL. CAL football suffered until we scored some great recruits, Ott being one of them. Wilcox is a good coach, its all about the money and the talent. Remember, Oregon offered him the HC job and he turned it down to come back and finish what he started at CAL. Part of his deal to stay at CAL was more money for assistants (better talent). Has he made some mistakes? Certainly. But when you look at the unique situation at CAL, understand that finding someone better who can fit into the CAL culture, would be very difficult. He has a staff and Rivera on board to raise money and help recruit. The first year won't show a lot of progress, but I expect to see major progress by year 2. Remember, we were 9 points from winning 10 games this year.
Rugbear: You bring up a whole lot of IFS; IF we have an good and/or experienced o-line, IF we get the talent to replace Ott, Endries and Thomas, IF Harsin doesn't turn out to be the asshole that multiple sources are saying that he is. You are right that great players are always looking for the best programs to showcase their talents so they have a shot at the pros but THERE IS NO REASON THAT CAN'T BE US (aside from inept administration and poor coaching, issues which can be fixed)! Cal Football has to get it's act together SOON before we are completely left out of future realignment/expansion. If that happens, we are going to be really fucked and well on our way to becoming the west coast version of the University of Chicago.
Ott was gone no matter what we did. Our O-Line will be better. Count on it. I don't care if Harsin is an asshole. Btw, when he was successful at Boise State there was none of this talk. Auburn was a terrible fit, period. He made a mistake taking that job because he had spent no time in the SEC and had no connections.
As to "why it can't be us", well we aren't in the SEC, we aren't Oklahoma and we aren't Texas. We are trying to build to that point. What I want to see is improvement every year. Sure Ott and Endries are gone, but what if we find another Patrick Laird? How about a Tony Gonzalez. Losing good players hurts, but now we look really good to some guys in the portal looking for a shot at being #1 RB for CAL.
The move to bring in Harsin was the biggest and best move Wilcox has made since he has been here. I'm not super excited about the CO-DC situation, but with Wilcox being a defensive coach and with Rivera around, I have confidence it was thought through before the decision was made.
If we win 8 games next year then we will have made solid improvement that we can build on. Ott really didn't contribute this year and Jett was not a huge factor either if you look at the numbers.
My biggest concern is replacing Mendoza. We have a back up guy with some experience from a great program and we have a young stud (who eventually will be way better than Mendoza), but will either of them be consistent enough this year to get us 8 W's. If I was the QB coach I would get JKS on a AI/VR offseason program the way Jade Daniels did when he turned pro, and speed up his game recognition.
I think our O-Line is a work in progress and I think we have some big nasty horses. Look at the roster and who we've brought in through the portal. I'm not sure of the level of athleticism, but overall I think we have a lot more size, nasty and talent this year than last year. Famika Anae has his work cut out for him, but he was incredibly successful at New Mexico.
I think you’re right on all counts Rugbear. We’ve got a great OL coach and some big uglies and you can build the offense from there. The people who fear the sky if falling should realize that you can stock up a program overnight through the portal. Indiana is the latest example of that.
Nope. Andy Smith and Pappy Waldorf were much more successful than Tedford. Smith had five successive unbeaten seasons and Waldorf had three. Both had much higher winning percentages than Tedford.
No one is denying that. He has the most wins because he coached a lot more games. Again Smith and Waldorf had better winning percentages and both took unbeaten teams to the Rose Bowl. So there's no comparison. Tedford is the third best coach in Cal football history. Maybe this'll help: if Wilcox coaches another ten years at Cal and goes 6-6 every season he'll have the most wins by any coach. Will that make him the best coach in Cal football history?
Rug, curious your opinion. What is the ceiling / floor of:
Team a: well coached, want to play football culture, less interested in the $$ perhaps less overtly talented.
Team b: decently coached, built by throwing $$ at it to get the best talent at all level, everyone in it to better their draft stock / current earnings?
Don't underestimate coaching but also don't underestimate talent. A well coached team with less talent can beat a very talented team with poor coaching now and then. A team with the best talent and decent coaching will almost always beat the team with lesser talent. Utah and Ohio State are two great examples. Remember the Rose Bowl where Utah came out and punched OSU in the mouth in the first half? But in the 2nd half the big speedy OSU receivers outmatched the smaller slower Utah DB's and it was game over. I'll take Whittingham over Ryan Day any day of the week as a coach, but you can't coach an untalented player to be better than a player with god given talent. We have the best coaching staff assembled at CAL since WIlcox has been here. Now we need talent.
Actually, we had a decent O-line when we won the Redbox Bowl. But getting O-lines like OSU, Michigan, Bama and those teams is really really tough.The portal has offered the opportunity to create some parity and Wilcox has had good portal classes the least two years.
True. But there is talent in the portal. And if a feature back is looking for a home, we are a great landing spot. And don't forget Anthony League. He's a baller.
Wilcox couldn’t win more than 6 games with last seasons roster despite it being more talented and having a fairly easy schedule. Wilcox will be lucky to win 6 regular season games this year with a less proven and talented roster.
It's deafening that Wilcox hasn't gotten in front of the fans/ media to address the massive exodus. These are the times where leadership can help right the ship for players and fans, and the silence gets fairly or unfairly filled with factual or rumor-filled stories. Example of lacking leadership in football right now...
I would normally take "culture fit" talk with a grain of salt. But when an ENTIRE position group leaves (starters and backups), it's hard to see that as anything but a protest against something deeply toxic.
Harsin was hired before Cal GM was in place. So if Harsin is the cause, it can validly be seen in hindsight as a poor fit for Cal's situation. And you know who hired Harsin. The GM needs to look at this whole enchilada (players, coaches, staff, donors/alumni, AD, UC, TV, fans/customers) and start making some decisions to get the most he can out of this season and be better prepared for next season. Start cleaning house, Ron. Nobody said this was gonna be a cakewalk.
And don't tell me "Give Ron the keys." If he's worth his salt, he'll *take* the keys.
All the talk about Harsin from Auburn can be tossed out the window. It was a hatchet job, pure and simple by boosters who never wanted him, who got the AD booted who hired him, then got him fired. It is telling that they tried to have him fired for cause, he was cleared of everything and they had to pay him his full contract.
He might not be the warmest and fuzziest of coaches but all the speculation going on about "the mass exodus" is nonsense until actual proof is delivered. Of which, at present, there is none.
And for all those wondering about all the players leaving...it happens. Cal isn't even in the top 15 teams within the P4 with the most transfers since the end of last season. Purdue has had 49 players leave, West Virginia 41... the list goes on.
If it were *only* the fairly recent reports out of Auburn, then it might be possible to dismiss the toxicity (et al) allegations as overzealous "good 'ol boy" boosters tanking Harsin's tenure before he had a chance to get settled in there. But Harsin's been near-universally disliked for his abrasive personality & entitled behavior everywhere he's coached going all the way back to his Boise St. days - by fans, boosters, players, assistants, support staff, etc.
His above-average at best track record as a HC & OC doesn't exactly justify him being an unreasonable hardass and vindictive prick - and certainly not that being a toxic manager/co-worker is justified regardless. Don't take my word for it, but there are tons of comments across multiple r/cfb threads this week, from Boise and Auburn flairs criticizing Harsin for being a self-absorbed douche. A few examples from today's post re: this exact article by Avi [https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1k2cnhw/kunnath_cbs_sports_offensive_coordinator_bryan/] -
[by a Boise flair] "This dude has always been an asshole. My fiance was in grad school helping the football team at BSU and he would regularly go on tirades blaming medical staff and students for injuries. Everyone was happy when he left for auburn. Next head coach was the same way too. Danielson has been a breath for fresh air for a lot of people working at BSU"
[reply by an Auburn flair] "And everyone at Auburn was happy when he got fired too. Not a guy who leaves an endearing reputation of success and high character behind."
[Boise flair] "Almost as if the guy that was known to be a jackass at Boise and a jackass at Auburn would continue to be a jackass at Berkeley"
[another Auburn flair] "Clearly someone bought into the narrative that Harsin failed at Auburn because the good 'ol boy network wouldn't give him a chance. Listen, the GoB network has been a problem at Auburn in the past (along with every SEC school). But that dude... In my experience, every departed Auburn coach has had his defenders, even if it was just the secretaries in the office. No one defended that guy. In my lifetime I've seen six Auburn HCs come and go and no one was as completely despised as he was."
[reply by a Troy (AL) flair] "The Auburn booster narrative is largely overblown at this point. Bobby Lowder was the main trouble maker who caused the reputation (JetGate) and he hasn’t had any sway in over a decade. Not saying that they can’t cause headaches for a coach, but I don’t think they are much worse than any other big SEC school and they weren’t the ones forcing Harsin to be the laziest recruiter in SEC history and have his assistants bolting for lower paying jobs."
[from the OP - Troy (AL) flair]: "His Players 🤝 His assistants 🤝 The recruits whose names he doesn’t know and leaves stranded at the airport 🤝 Good Ol Boy Auburn boosters 🤝 Silicon Valley Berkeley donors - “This Harsin guy sucks” "
[Boise flair]: "Don't forget all the people from Boise that had crappy experiences with him"
[reply by Auburn flair]: "I remember when we hired him one of the beat writers said it was going to fail when not a single player from Boise followed him. I thought he was overreacting, but I was wrong"
[LSU flair]: "If you happen to stumble across his wife's Instagram, you'll find that it's a joint effort. They both look insufferable."
[Okie St flair]: "Reminder that there was a reddit comment where someone interned with Boise media while Harsin was there before working for Les Moonves and he said Harsin was by far the biggest raging asshole they'd ever met."
[Auburn flair further down]: "He was an asshole to everyone, players, coaches, boosters..."
[reply by Auburn flair]: "Don’t forget he refused to recruit. Jarquez Hunter was a redshirt-junior last year. He was the only player left from his recruiting class."
[Alabama flair further down]: "He’s doing the Charlie Weis challenge. He’s seeing how bad he can screw up programs and how many buyouts he can get."
[Boise flair in same chain]: "He did okay here but lost big games and lost games we had no business losing"
[Another Boise flair in same chain]: "I can't see it happening. He wasn't even considered when the Boise State job opened a couple weeks after Auburn fired Harsin, and given how unpopular he was within the Boise State administration, I don't think they'd be too keen on bringing him back."
[Yet another Boise flair in same chain]: "No way, he was a known asshole in Boise. People hated him and his Karen/entitled wife here in Boise."
[Another Boise flair way further down]: "Heard a looooot of players celebrated when he left Boise. Good X and Os coach, but something about him really rubs guys the wrong way."
[from an A&M/Baylor flair who apparently follows Cal]:
"He's famously abrasive to work with, and has a pretty rough history as a playcaller. Bo Nix has described his time under Harsin as "miserable", and Derek Mason bounced from Auburn after one season with Harsin to take the same job at OKST for less money. When he fired Mike Bobo and hired Austin Davis to be OC at Auburn, Davis quit just six weeks later for "personal reasons".
He benefitted immensely at Ark State and Boise, because he inherited powerhouse program built by Freeze/Malzahn and Petersen respectively, and while he didn't crash either program, things were definitely worse under him. Petersen's Boise teams were consistently in the top 15, and finished in the top 10 about a third of the time in his last decade. In his seven years running the show at Boise, Harsin had a single top-20 finish and three fringe top-25 finishes.
He's not bad so much as he's apparently just a dick to work with, and he's not really good either. I think we've all had coworkers or bosses like that."
[same poster replying further down] "To be fair, he called his own plays as a HC at Boise and Ark State, and IIRC part of his issue at Auburn was that he kept interjecting himself into the offensive playcalling.
Harsin’s tenure as an OC is kind of up in the air. His time at Texas was rough, and his only other OC experience was at Boise, where he benefitted immensely from having Chris Petersen there as a backstop. Petersen was arguably an even better OC back in the day than a HC, and he was a pretty good HC. Harsin still runs his adapted version of Petersen’s offense."
[Boise flair in another reply] "Harsin wasn't bad for us but I can concur, he's a dick"
[Boise & Idaho flair on a different top-level comment] "Loooool, Harsin is who you bring in to sabotage a program. We cheered when he left."
I'm more in the "where's there's smoke..." camp - if a sports journalist who is required to verify stories with multiple sources, I think it has to be more than a booster hatchet job.
Also, just throwing numbers out there for other team's transfers means little - most likely many of those were way down the depth chart and moved to lesser programs to get some playing time, or realize they are bad fits for the new system. It's different when a room of star and near-star running backs all bail after a HC change.
But it seems something turned off all the running backs, not just Ott. I had heard of Harsin's belligerent, negative behavior when he was at Auburn and he wasn't too well liked at Boise.
Why is Wilcox still the coach? Why does Knowlton still have a job? We go down this path every year. Every season is like ground hog day. Cal starts strong and then conference play stars and the wheels fall off. After each season the top players leave, it’s like a right of passage. The AD does nothing, as usual.
Wilcox's contract is up after next season. Firing him now would cost a bundle. We just have to tough it out this season. Maybe Harsin could be fired though.
Clean house, start over? --- where the hell is the leadership? Rivera?, Wilcox?, Know....., oops, Jim that's ok, why don't you go count cars on Telegraph Ave.
To summarize, WE ARE FUCKED!!!!!! That's it; I'm done with Wilcox. I had high hopes for this season (especially with a healthy Ott and Thomas-we could have had a real two-headed monster at RB) but those have been blown up in less than a week. Sure, Cal may pull off a miracle this season and manage to win 7-8 games but pigs might fly and I might win the lottery. I liked that Wilcox brought defensive toughness to the Bears (especially after the Sonny era defenses that couldn't stop a sneeze) but he is basically Sonny Dykes in reverse: All defense, no offense. And like Dykes, he doesn't seem to be able to evaluate good coaching talent or keep any semblance of stability in the program. Personally, I like Wilcox. I met him at an alumni event and he didn't strike me as arrogant or unwilling to listen but this is simply the last straw. NINE YEARS and he hasn't been able to make significant progress and now this! Lyons has to pull the trigger and show Wilcox AND Knowlton the door. Until drama like this week's shit show stops, no more donations to athletics from me and I'm sure that A LOT of other alums feel the same way.
Auburn grad here… and I can prob be more objective than most. While you may want a rebuild and change to a tougher culture… and that requires running some kids off, it also requires you to be able to bring in new kids. And therein lies the rub… Harsin can’t recruit. In fact, I think he refuses to because it means chasing, appeasing and appealing to kids. So you’ve got a guy that wants to be a hard ass - who has no upside to the player. The genius of someone like Saban is that he was a hard ass… but kids loved him and loved playing for him. Further, Harsin can dislike NIL all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that it is part of the game. So, you either evolve or die.
On a personal level - a Trump loving Mormon in Berkeley, CA … seems like some kind of sick joke.
As far as totally dismissing his time at Auburn because it was a booster hatchet job …it’s more of a case of two things being correct at the same time: 1. Harsin sucks. 2. Auburn over played it’s hand trying to find a reason to get rid of him without paying him.
My advice cut your losses as fast as reasonably possible and move on. It’s not going to work.
Why in the world did UCB hire this guy? Was somebody asleep during the recommendation's reading? How many players have the Bears lost in the decimation of my Alma Mater's football team?
First thing I am going to say is thank you to Avi for the hard investigative work. The next thing I'm going to say is that all this talk about Harsin's personality is BS. All of these allegations about Harsin are from unamed sources. Why not ask Harsin directly and get his response? Until we have named sources or direct answers to questions from Harsin, all these allegations are just irresponsible rumors, and probably from disaffected players.
Different coaches have different styles. Wilcox has coached with Harsin and knows how Harsin coaches. If Harsin is too hard nosed for some players then so be it. Players don't run programs, coaches do. Tedford let the players run his program and look where it got him. We need a Kyle Whittingham or Nick Saban personality type at OC.
Maybe CAL is due for a culture shift. We certainly have not been as physical as I would like to see. When I think of over achieving teams that do well because they are physical, even with less talent than most of their competitors, I think of Utah. Their brand is physical, punch you in the mouth, football. Boise State used to have that reputation as well. Perhaps Harsin is trying to bring that back at CAL. If so I welcome it.
When I look at the reasons for Ott leaving, its pretty clear. He has one year to prove to the pros that he has game. By playing in the SEC he has an opportunity to showcase his skills at the top level of college football. And I'm sure Oklahoma paid him well. Ott has to do well this year or his pro aspirations will be damaged. He has a better chance to show well at Oklahoma against tougher competition, that's just a fact.
For Endries its the same thing. Instead of being part of a program still trying to figure out if a 3 star transfer QB from Ohio State will play or if a five star freshman QB with no experience will start, he is stepping onto a field where Texas is an SEC team that played in the Natty and has a 5 star generational talent at QB who has been groomed the last two years: Arch Manning. If the paycheck was equal it was an easy choice for Endries.
Not sure about Jett but I am assuming that because other three RB's were not considered as starter material and CAL will go back to the portal for RB talent, they most likely moved on to places where they think they will get a better shot at more playing time.
I'm not so worried about our RB or TE talent. We can do well if we have a big bruising and nasty o-line and a solid QB. The QB battle will be sorted out and I actually hope our freshman has a chance to step on the field, even if he will make mistakes early on; the kid just has too much talent.
I'm not as worried about the changes as everyone else. Ott had a tough year last year and while he is tough, he is not a physical RB. Jett is similar but he's smaller. Both have great speed. but sometimes you have to make 3 yards out of nothing as well as be a breakaway threat. I imagine
Harsin is looking for a talented RB willing to play like Cameron Skattebo.
If a new physical culture means we lose some guys, I'm ok with it. And I completely understand why Endries and Ott chased their pro dreams elsewhere and do not hold it against them.
Great players with pro dreams are always going to look for a better place to showcase their talents if the paycheck is equal (or better) at their new team.
Go Bears!
Not sure I understand your Jet point. He would almost assuredly have been the starting RB on opening day if he had stayed. There is a giant hole in that backfield right now.
Not sure that's true. If we don't find a hard nosed RB in the Portal you are right, but I am guessing that no jobs were guaranteed and the coaches were clear about bringing in as much talent as possible to compete. I'm also fairly certain Griffin sat down with each of his RB's and told them what he expected and wanted. He did say that Jett was a hard worker and needed to continue on that path, but he never said Jett had a claim to anything. If Jett was the guaranteed starter, I don't think he would have looked for greener pastures. Do we even know where he ended up?
Jaivian looked really good in the spring game. Sure, don't promise anything, but it's hard not to see most pathways leading to him winning the starting job with Ott gone and a year of practice with this new unit under his belt. That is a very worrisome sign to hit eject on that, particularly when you're from Oakland.
I don't disagree. But a Spring game isn't a season in the ACC. We love our stars, but coaches understand the level of talent and dedication necessary to win at a P4 level. The hard truth is that maybe Jett didn't have what the coaches thought was the talent to be a top performer at RB in the ACC. This actually speaks fairly loud:
https://247sports.com/player/jaivian-thomas-46110710/
Does he have zero stars because he has zero stars or because they haven’t really rated him?
You just won't stop praising Harsin. Do you know him or have you observed his practices or his indoor player meetings? It seems Auburn got rid of him because he alienated many players. And, he didn't get another coaching job for two years and then Wilcox hired him.
No, I'm honest about Harsin as an offensive coach. And Auburn got rid of him because he didn't win. Look at his record at Boise State. He's from there and could recruit there. He never was even an assistant coach in the SEC. Hard to recruit in the SEC when you have no relationships. And, there are always going to be players who after the fact will talk bad about a coach. With sources being anonymous, I give the stories zero credibility other than some unhappy players that have sour grapes because they think they should have received more playing time. There is no team where this does situation not exist. Lastly, Wilcox knows him well and coached with him. I trust Wilcox's judgment because he has integrity as a Coach.
It isn’t as if all we lost were backup players.
We lost our starting QB, starting RB, backup RB, all of our RBs, starting TE, and all of our starting WRs. These aren’t guys buried on the depth chart (although, we lost that to) who want a fresh start for more PT. These are guys that were going to get a lot of snaps.
Go back to my explanation of why they all left. The one I don’t understand is Mendoza. But hearing the rumors about how he was rough on JKS, maybe he was intimidated about a 5 star QB coming in as a freshman. I really don’t know, however.
Are you referring to the stories from his time at BSU and Auburn? Or the stories from here? Because the stories at Auburn were most certainly not anonymous. Hell, there was even a university investigation that got kicked off by the Derek Mason exit interview. And if he's as big of an asshole as folks at his previous stops make him out to be, I'd bet dollars to donuts that coming to Cal didn't magically turn him into a nice guy. Unless of course you're saying that there's a grand conspiracy smear campaign between players, staff, fans, boosters, and students who all want to sully the good name of Bryan Harsin? If even half the stories are true he'd still be one of the biggest assholes by a country mile.
Several good points and sounds logical for things that “may” happen. The only problem standing in the way is the last 8 years of Wilcox and his “actual” record of achievement (or lack there of). He just doesn’t make the right choices in many areas.
So how many tries does Wilcox get?
It gets old after so many years of the same results.
Wilcox did show steady improvement until Covid, and then we had huge setbacks in recruiting. Remember, McCade Mettauer left because he was frustrated with the whole California/Berkeley management of Covid. He went to Oklahoma, started and is now playing in the NFL. CAL football suffered until we scored some great recruits, Ott being one of them. Wilcox is a good coach, its all about the money and the talent. Remember, Oregon offered him the HC job and he turned it down to come back and finish what he started at CAL. Part of his deal to stay at CAL was more money for assistants (better talent). Has he made some mistakes? Certainly. But when you look at the unique situation at CAL, understand that finding someone better who can fit into the CAL culture, would be very difficult. He has a staff and Rivera on board to raise money and help recruit. The first year won't show a lot of progress, but I expect to see major progress by year 2. Remember, we were 9 points from winning 10 games this year.
I highly doubt he makes it to season 10 if he doesn’t win 6 regular season games. This is his finals prove it or move on season.
Agree
Thank you for the reset Rugbear. Much appreciated. Maybe Wiley can fit the role described above. He will definitely get an opportunity
Rugbear: You bring up a whole lot of IFS; IF we have an good and/or experienced o-line, IF we get the talent to replace Ott, Endries and Thomas, IF Harsin doesn't turn out to be the asshole that multiple sources are saying that he is. You are right that great players are always looking for the best programs to showcase their talents so they have a shot at the pros but THERE IS NO REASON THAT CAN'T BE US (aside from inept administration and poor coaching, issues which can be fixed)! Cal Football has to get it's act together SOON before we are completely left out of future realignment/expansion. If that happens, we are going to be really fucked and well on our way to becoming the west coast version of the University of Chicago.
Ott was gone no matter what we did. Our O-Line will be better. Count on it. I don't care if Harsin is an asshole. Btw, when he was successful at Boise State there was none of this talk. Auburn was a terrible fit, period. He made a mistake taking that job because he had spent no time in the SEC and had no connections.
As to "why it can't be us", well we aren't in the SEC, we aren't Oklahoma and we aren't Texas. We are trying to build to that point. What I want to see is improvement every year. Sure Ott and Endries are gone, but what if we find another Patrick Laird? How about a Tony Gonzalez. Losing good players hurts, but now we look really good to some guys in the portal looking for a shot at being #1 RB for CAL.
The move to bring in Harsin was the biggest and best move Wilcox has made since he has been here. I'm not super excited about the CO-DC situation, but with Wilcox being a defensive coach and with Rivera around, I have confidence it was thought through before the decision was made.
If we win 8 games next year then we will have made solid improvement that we can build on. Ott really didn't contribute this year and Jett was not a huge factor either if you look at the numbers.
My biggest concern is replacing Mendoza. We have a back up guy with some experience from a great program and we have a young stud (who eventually will be way better than Mendoza), but will either of them be consistent enough this year to get us 8 W's. If I was the QB coach I would get JKS on a AI/VR offseason program the way Jade Daniels did when he turned pro, and speed up his game recognition.
Btw, I like this (even if it is from January):
https://www.si.com/college/cal/football/espn-projects-jaron-keawe-sagapolutele-will-be-cal-s-starting-qb-in-2025-01jhk74gm0xq
Win 8 games this year? Thats enough sunshine pumping to light up a neighborhood.
Ha! I didn't guarantee it, but I said if we were able to get there it would be solid enough improvement to keep it going.
Rugbear: I just hope you are right!
So do I!
People forget that we were 1 missed field goal in 3 games away from an 8-1 start last season. The foundation is there.
well that foundation just left, and it's clear now that it was against a very bad acc.
Our success this year will hinge on our QB play.
I'm not so worried about our RB or TE talent. We can do well if we have a big bruising and nasty o-line and a solid QB.
The problem is we don't have a big bruising and nasty o-line nor a solid QB.
I think our O-Line is a work in progress and I think we have some big nasty horses. Look at the roster and who we've brought in through the portal. I'm not sure of the level of athleticism, but overall I think we have a lot more size, nasty and talent this year than last year. Famika Anae has his work cut out for him, but he was incredibly successful at New Mexico.
I think you’re right on all counts Rugbear. We’ve got a great OL coach and some big uglies and you can build the offense from there. The people who fear the sky if falling should realize that you can stock up a program overnight through the portal. Indiana is the latest example of that.
If we have a strong oline and a great QB the ceiling gets a lot higher.
Thanks Rug. Good stuff.
Tedford was the most successful coach in Cal football history. He has more wins than any before him.
Agree, but he was eventually forced out because he gave some problem players too much latitude. He might still be here winning if he didn’t do that.
Nope. Andy Smith and Pappy Waldorf were much more successful than Tedford. Smith had five successive unbeaten seasons and Waldorf had three. Both had much higher winning percentages than Tedford.
I'm pretty sure he has the most wins. I'll look it up.
No one is denying that. He has the most wins because he coached a lot more games. Again Smith and Waldorf had better winning percentages and both took unbeaten teams to the Rose Bowl. So there's no comparison. Tedford is the third best coach in Cal football history. Maybe this'll help: if Wilcox coaches another ten years at Cal and goes 6-6 every season he'll have the most wins by any coach. Will that make him the best coach in Cal football history?
This is true.
Rug, curious your opinion. What is the ceiling / floor of:
Team a: well coached, want to play football culture, less interested in the $$ perhaps less overtly talented.
Team b: decently coached, built by throwing $$ at it to get the best talent at all level, everyone in it to better their draft stock / current earnings?
Don't underestimate coaching but also don't underestimate talent. A well coached team with less talent can beat a very talented team with poor coaching now and then. A team with the best talent and decent coaching will almost always beat the team with lesser talent. Utah and Ohio State are two great examples. Remember the Rose Bowl where Utah came out and punched OSU in the mouth in the first half? But in the 2nd half the big speedy OSU receivers outmatched the smaller slower Utah DB's and it was game over. I'll take Whittingham over Ryan Day any day of the week as a coach, but you can't coach an untalented player to be better than a player with god given talent. We have the best coaching staff assembled at CAL since WIlcox has been here. Now we need talent.
Ohio St., Utah, Michigan, etc had super O and D lines. That's where you win football games. Cal has not had either of those since Tedford left.
Actually, we had a decent O-line when we won the Redbox Bowl. But getting O-lines like OSU, Michigan, Bama and those teams is really really tough.The portal has offered the opportunity to create some parity and Wilcox has had good portal classes the least two years.
But the talents are gone!
We may have great coaches but with the best players gone, our ceiling is as good as the talent we have left.
True. But there is talent in the portal. And if a feature back is looking for a home, we are a great landing spot. And don't forget Anthony League. He's a baller.
Wilcox couldn’t win more than 6 games with last seasons roster despite it being more talented and having a fairly easy schedule. Wilcox will be lucky to win 6 regular season games this year with a less proven and talented roster.
It's deafening that Wilcox hasn't gotten in front of the fans/ media to address the massive exodus. These are the times where leadership can help right the ship for players and fans, and the silence gets fairly or unfairly filled with factual or rumor-filled stories. Example of lacking leadership in football right now...
Further info that points to not only to cleaning house at the coaching level, but also removing the people that hired these coaches.
After several years of chances, it’s time for the nuclear option.
I would normally take "culture fit" talk with a grain of salt. But when an ENTIRE position group leaves (starters and backups), it's hard to see that as anything but a protest against something deeply toxic.
Harsin was hired before Cal GM was in place. So if Harsin is the cause, it can validly be seen in hindsight as a poor fit for Cal's situation. And you know who hired Harsin. The GM needs to look at this whole enchilada (players, coaches, staff, donors/alumni, AD, UC, TV, fans/customers) and start making some decisions to get the most he can out of this season and be better prepared for next season. Start cleaning house, Ron. Nobody said this was gonna be a cakewalk.
And don't tell me "Give Ron the keys." If he's worth his salt, he'll *take* the keys.
That’s a good point about taking the keys…
Apparently, Ron does have the keys, cuz Mike Silver says that he says "I'm driving the car".
https://x.com/MikeSilver/status/1913315899341418996
That gives me a little bit of hope. We will see.
Yes. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next couple of weeks.
All the talk about Harsin from Auburn can be tossed out the window. It was a hatchet job, pure and simple by boosters who never wanted him, who got the AD booted who hired him, then got him fired. It is telling that they tried to have him fired for cause, he was cleared of everything and they had to pay him his full contract.
He might not be the warmest and fuzziest of coaches but all the speculation going on about "the mass exodus" is nonsense until actual proof is delivered. Of which, at present, there is none.
And for all those wondering about all the players leaving...it happens. Cal isn't even in the top 15 teams within the P4 with the most transfers since the end of last season. Purdue has had 49 players leave, West Virginia 41... the list goes on.
If it were *only* the fairly recent reports out of Auburn, then it might be possible to dismiss the toxicity (et al) allegations as overzealous "good 'ol boy" boosters tanking Harsin's tenure before he had a chance to get settled in there. But Harsin's been near-universally disliked for his abrasive personality & entitled behavior everywhere he's coached going all the way back to his Boise St. days - by fans, boosters, players, assistants, support staff, etc.
His above-average at best track record as a HC & OC doesn't exactly justify him being an unreasonable hardass and vindictive prick - and certainly not that being a toxic manager/co-worker is justified regardless. Don't take my word for it, but there are tons of comments across multiple r/cfb threads this week, from Boise and Auburn flairs criticizing Harsin for being a self-absorbed douche. A few examples from today's post re: this exact article by Avi [https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1k2cnhw/kunnath_cbs_sports_offensive_coordinator_bryan/] -
[by a Boise flair] "This dude has always been an asshole. My fiance was in grad school helping the football team at BSU and he would regularly go on tirades blaming medical staff and students for injuries. Everyone was happy when he left for auburn. Next head coach was the same way too. Danielson has been a breath for fresh air for a lot of people working at BSU"
[reply by an Auburn flair] "And everyone at Auburn was happy when he got fired too. Not a guy who leaves an endearing reputation of success and high character behind."
[Boise flair] "Almost as if the guy that was known to be a jackass at Boise and a jackass at Auburn would continue to be a jackass at Berkeley"
[another Auburn flair] "Clearly someone bought into the narrative that Harsin failed at Auburn because the good 'ol boy network wouldn't give him a chance. Listen, the GoB network has been a problem at Auburn in the past (along with every SEC school). But that dude... In my experience, every departed Auburn coach has had his defenders, even if it was just the secretaries in the office. No one defended that guy. In my lifetime I've seen six Auburn HCs come and go and no one was as completely despised as he was."
[reply by a Troy (AL) flair] "The Auburn booster narrative is largely overblown at this point. Bobby Lowder was the main trouble maker who caused the reputation (JetGate) and he hasn’t had any sway in over a decade. Not saying that they can’t cause headaches for a coach, but I don’t think they are much worse than any other big SEC school and they weren’t the ones forcing Harsin to be the laziest recruiter in SEC history and have his assistants bolting for lower paying jobs."
More comments critical of Harsin on the thread re: Avi's tweet yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1k1uuo8/kunnath_since_bryan_harsin_has_arrived_at_cal_as/
[from the OP - Troy (AL) flair]: "His Players 🤝 His assistants 🤝 The recruits whose names he doesn’t know and leaves stranded at the airport 🤝 Good Ol Boy Auburn boosters 🤝 Silicon Valley Berkeley donors - “This Harsin guy sucks” "
[Boise flair]: "Don't forget all the people from Boise that had crappy experiences with him"
[reply by Auburn flair]: "I remember when we hired him one of the beat writers said it was going to fail when not a single player from Boise followed him. I thought he was overreacting, but I was wrong"
[LSU flair]: "If you happen to stumble across his wife's Instagram, you'll find that it's a joint effort. They both look insufferable."
[Okie St flair]: "Reminder that there was a reddit comment where someone interned with Boise media while Harsin was there before working for Les Moonves and he said Harsin was by far the biggest raging asshole they'd ever met."
[Auburn flair further down]: "He was an asshole to everyone, players, coaches, boosters..."
[reply by Auburn flair]: "Don’t forget he refused to recruit. Jarquez Hunter was a redshirt-junior last year. He was the only player left from his recruiting class."
[Alabama flair further down]: "He’s doing the Charlie Weis challenge. He’s seeing how bad he can screw up programs and how many buyouts he can get."
[Boise flair in same chain]: "He did okay here but lost big games and lost games we had no business losing"
[Another Boise flair in same chain]: "I can't see it happening. He wasn't even considered when the Boise State job opened a couple weeks after Auburn fired Harsin, and given how unpopular he was within the Boise State administration, I don't think they'd be too keen on bringing him back."
[Yet another Boise flair in same chain]: "No way, he was a known asshole in Boise. People hated him and his Karen/entitled wife here in Boise."
[Another Boise flair way further down]: "Heard a looooot of players celebrated when he left Boise. Good X and Os coach, but something about him really rubs guys the wrong way."
Adding this comment chain from a different W4C/Avi article post yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1k1dd1e/comment/mnlylp3/?context=3
[from an A&M/Baylor flair who apparently follows Cal]:
"He's famously abrasive to work with, and has a pretty rough history as a playcaller. Bo Nix has described his time under Harsin as "miserable", and Derek Mason bounced from Auburn after one season with Harsin to take the same job at OKST for less money. When he fired Mike Bobo and hired Austin Davis to be OC at Auburn, Davis quit just six weeks later for "personal reasons".
He benefitted immensely at Ark State and Boise, because he inherited powerhouse program built by Freeze/Malzahn and Petersen respectively, and while he didn't crash either program, things were definitely worse under him. Petersen's Boise teams were consistently in the top 15, and finished in the top 10 about a third of the time in his last decade. In his seven years running the show at Boise, Harsin had a single top-20 finish and three fringe top-25 finishes.
He's not bad so much as he's apparently just a dick to work with, and he's not really good either. I think we've all had coworkers or bosses like that."
[same poster replying further down] "To be fair, he called his own plays as a HC at Boise and Ark State, and IIRC part of his issue at Auburn was that he kept interjecting himself into the offensive playcalling.
Harsin’s tenure as an OC is kind of up in the air. His time at Texas was rough, and his only other OC experience was at Boise, where he benefitted immensely from having Chris Petersen there as a backstop. Petersen was arguably an even better OC back in the day than a HC, and he was a pretty good HC. Harsin still runs his adapted version of Petersen’s offense."
[Boise flair in another reply] "Harsin wasn't bad for us but I can concur, he's a dick"
[Boise & Idaho flair on a different top-level comment] "Loooool, Harsin is who you bring in to sabotage a program. We cheered when he left."
Auburn Grad here…
Two things occurred at once:
1. Harsin sucked and didn’t recruit or no how.
2. Auburn overplayed its hand trying to figure out a way to fire him without paying him.
So, yes, technically a hatchet job… but it doesn’t mitigate the other issue.
I'm more in the "where's there's smoke..." camp - if a sports journalist who is required to verify stories with multiple sources, I think it has to be more than a booster hatchet job.
Also, just throwing numbers out there for other team's transfers means little - most likely many of those were way down the depth chart and moved to lesser programs to get some playing time, or realize they are bad fits for the new system. It's different when a room of star and near-star running backs all bail after a HC change.
West Virginia and Purdue fired their previous HC and have new HC’s, so their roster turnover makes sense.
But it seems something turned off all the running backs, not just Ott. I had heard of Harsin's belligerent, negative behavior when he was at Auburn and he wasn't too well liked at Boise.
Something has gone completely off the rails.
Why is Wilcox still the coach? Why does Knowlton still have a job? We go down this path every year. Every season is like ground hog day. Cal starts strong and then conference play stars and the wheels fall off. After each season the top players leave, it’s like a right of passage. The AD does nothing, as usual.
Wilcox's contract is up after next season. Firing him now would cost a bundle. We just have to tough it out this season. Maybe Harsin could be fired though.
It would be nice to know why five RBs left in one week.
Wilcox can’t blame this exodus on covid, City of Berkeley or the administration. He owns this, all of it.
Clean house, start over? --- where the hell is the leadership? Rivera?, Wilcox?, Know....., oops, Jim that's ok, why don't you go count cars on Telegraph Ave.
To summarize, WE ARE FUCKED!!!!!! That's it; I'm done with Wilcox. I had high hopes for this season (especially with a healthy Ott and Thomas-we could have had a real two-headed monster at RB) but those have been blown up in less than a week. Sure, Cal may pull off a miracle this season and manage to win 7-8 games but pigs might fly and I might win the lottery. I liked that Wilcox brought defensive toughness to the Bears (especially after the Sonny era defenses that couldn't stop a sneeze) but he is basically Sonny Dykes in reverse: All defense, no offense. And like Dykes, he doesn't seem to be able to evaluate good coaching talent or keep any semblance of stability in the program. Personally, I like Wilcox. I met him at an alumni event and he didn't strike me as arrogant or unwilling to listen but this is simply the last straw. NINE YEARS and he hasn't been able to make significant progress and now this! Lyons has to pull the trigger and show Wilcox AND Knowlton the door. Until drama like this week's shit show stops, no more donations to athletics from me and I'm sure that A LOT of other alums feel the same way.
Auburn grad here… and I can prob be more objective than most. While you may want a rebuild and change to a tougher culture… and that requires running some kids off, it also requires you to be able to bring in new kids. And therein lies the rub… Harsin can’t recruit. In fact, I think he refuses to because it means chasing, appeasing and appealing to kids. So you’ve got a guy that wants to be a hard ass - who has no upside to the player. The genius of someone like Saban is that he was a hard ass… but kids loved him and loved playing for him. Further, Harsin can dislike NIL all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that it is part of the game. So, you either evolve or die.
On a personal level - a Trump loving Mormon in Berkeley, CA … seems like some kind of sick joke.
As far as totally dismissing his time at Auburn because it was a booster hatchet job …it’s more of a case of two things being correct at the same time: 1. Harsin sucks. 2. Auburn over played it’s hand trying to find a reason to get rid of him without paying him.
My advice cut your losses as fast as reasonably possible and move on. It’s not going to work.
Why in the world did UCB hire this guy? Was somebody asleep during the recommendation's reading? How many players have the Bears lost in the decimation of my Alma Mater's football team?
Just further proof that Wilcox doesn’t know what to do on offense and is flailing. Wilcox and Harsin will more than likely not be at Cal next season.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/the-unraveling-of-cal-star-exodus-a-donor-ultimatum-and-a-football-program-running-out-of-runway/