Nobody is thrilled with the way things are going, but lost in all of this is the Wyking talent drain. Justice is currently starting and one of the leading scorers for a top 5-10 OSU team; Vanover is a key contributor on a borderline top 10 team at Arkansas; and McNeil is a key contributor on what seems to be a pretty good SMU team. They would be 3 of our 4 best players right now, and the recruiting the last two years has been nowhere close to being at the level to replace any one of those guys, much less all 3 of them. Against that backdrop, I think that the injuries and other time missed by guys like Bradley and Grant means more to this team than it does other programs.
Looks like there is maybe/sorta a bit of an uptick this year in recruiting? But unless we start re-stocking with legitimate power 5 caliber players, this isn't going to get meaningfully better no matter what else Fox does, though I don't think the apparent lack of improvement by any of the players here is a vote of confidence that recruiting is going to get significantly better anytime soon. And if we are pinning our hopes on the transfer portal, yikes. Maybe the late-game ball will bounce our way and we'll win a few more close games some season than we did this year and inch closer to a .500 conference record, but that seems like the ceiling here, and that seemed like it was the ceiling even when he was hired. There is no reasonable opportunity to move on, but maybe our next coaching search will include something resembling a real process instead of the AD simply going with a consultant's recommendation.
You may be right. I was pretty much basing that off the signing of Obinna Anyanwu, who has the type of offer list (AZ, USC, TX, etc.) that suggests he can play at this level, and is our first Rivals 4-star recruit since Matt Bradley/Jacobi Gordon. But as those two guys show, development (and luck -- Gordon had unfortunate injuries) is every bit as important as their ranking.
Are we blaming Wyking for the talent drain on players he recruited here? Or on fox for losing those talented guys that would’ve pushed this team atleast one rung up based on talent alone? Just wanted to clarify
I'm not a Fox fan. Mostly because of the temper tantrums he pulls on the sideline during games, so old school and doesn't sit well with players, parents and fans. That said, the staff did a poor job developing players from year 1 to year 2 but get a full pass due to COVID 19. A glaring miss by the staff was not giving KK more minutes. He is one of the few players on the team with the athleticism and length for the PAC12. Only way to get better is to play and KK's butt was in the seat way too much. Celestine got increased minutes, which was good (should have gotten a lot more) and Bowers should have been given a lot more minutes as well. Just not enough development or "trial by fire" for these 3 players, IMO.
Exactly. The lack of development by his own recruits is incredibly troublesome, and unfortunately further improvement next year would be surprising...unless you’re counting on some A-ha moment where things just click. Kuany has the potential to be the best of the 1st recruiting-class bunch, but he’s spent the past 2 years on the bench, with only spot minutes to show. I don’t even want to get started on Lars, who tries real hard but plays sooo much smaller than 7’.
After the first Stanford loss, Fox openly acknowledged a talent deficiency on the team, something you rarely hear a HC admit. That is sooooo not a good look, especially when as HC you recruited/signed 8 of the guys you’re referring to. Incidentally, of the 3 anchors to your roster, none were recruited by Fox. This is bad.
No. They’re def gonna need lightning in a bottle w/ some unexpected 3* recruit going full-on Ryan Anderson and flipping the script a little, esp. when Bradley grad transfers to Michigan next season. Feel bad saying this, but it was a little disappointing to hear a couple of mediocre seniors are returning for another year in ‘21-‘22 after the COVID eligibility waiver, as they’re blocking the PT of others...
I've come to the conclusion that it's going to take a complete bottoming out (yes, worse than this season) and a staff changover. And that will mean a couple more seasons of this level of play.
This is the most likely outcome, as the regression of this team in ‘20-‘21 back to the basically unwatchable messes of the Wyking-era are really negative signs. By the time it’s all said and done, it’s probably 10 years of utter irrelevance...
That's a good question: What does the AD want out of the men's basketball program? I know next year (if Covid is gone, a big if) then it will be interesting to see how many folks show up at Haas. I suspect it will take a long time to recover the fanbase which is shrinking with each passing year of futility.
Maybe it’s faulty memory, but the Berkeley disruption to preseason practice seemed way more than schools in other geographies experienced. The teammates had to be outside and couldn’t even touch the same ball all summer. If defense takes more practice to get right, I am unsurprised at the result and chalk up this season as doomed from the start because of Berkeley’s health restrictions.
That plays a part sure. But I think the issue is there wasn’t any improvement when that didn’t affect us the rest of the year. I’ve said this a bunch of times but we’re the only team in conference that didn’t have a delay or cancellation of practice or games after the season began. We had injuries but that happens every season and is part of sports. We’ve actually gotten continually worse as the season went on and if not for Washington we’d be at the dead bottom in-terms of statistics.
To me it's not necessarily specific positions (pending anybody leaving early) as it is skill sets. This team needs a rim protector badly, and could very much benefit from more incisive passing from perimeter ball handlers.
Nobody is thrilled with the way things are going, but lost in all of this is the Wyking talent drain. Justice is currently starting and one of the leading scorers for a top 5-10 OSU team; Vanover is a key contributor on a borderline top 10 team at Arkansas; and McNeil is a key contributor on what seems to be a pretty good SMU team. They would be 3 of our 4 best players right now, and the recruiting the last two years has been nowhere close to being at the level to replace any one of those guys, much less all 3 of them. Against that backdrop, I think that the injuries and other time missed by guys like Bradley and Grant means more to this team than it does other programs.
Looks like there is maybe/sorta a bit of an uptick this year in recruiting? But unless we start re-stocking with legitimate power 5 caliber players, this isn't going to get meaningfully better no matter what else Fox does, though I don't think the apparent lack of improvement by any of the players here is a vote of confidence that recruiting is going to get significantly better anytime soon. And if we are pinning our hopes on the transfer portal, yikes. Maybe the late-game ball will bounce our way and we'll win a few more close games some season than we did this year and inch closer to a .500 conference record, but that seems like the ceiling here, and that seemed like it was the ceiling even when he was hired. There is no reasonable opportunity to move on, but maybe our next coaching search will include something resembling a real process instead of the AD simply going with a consultant's recommendation.
"Looks like there is maybe/sorta a bit of an uptick this year in recruiting? "
I wish I could believe this, but I don't think it's true.
You may be right. I was pretty much basing that off the signing of Obinna Anyanwu, who has the type of offer list (AZ, USC, TX, etc.) that suggests he can play at this level, and is our first Rivals 4-star recruit since Matt Bradley/Jacobi Gordon. But as those two guys show, development (and luck -- Gordon had unfortunate injuries) is every bit as important as their ranking.
Are we blaming Wyking for the talent drain on players he recruited here? Or on fox for losing those talented guys that would’ve pushed this team atleast one rung up based on talent alone? Just wanted to clarify
I'm not a Fox fan. Mostly because of the temper tantrums he pulls on the sideline during games, so old school and doesn't sit well with players, parents and fans. That said, the staff did a poor job developing players from year 1 to year 2 but get a full pass due to COVID 19. A glaring miss by the staff was not giving KK more minutes. He is one of the few players on the team with the athleticism and length for the PAC12. Only way to get better is to play and KK's butt was in the seat way too much. Celestine got increased minutes, which was good (should have gotten a lot more) and Bowers should have been given a lot more minutes as well. Just not enough development or "trial by fire" for these 3 players, IMO.
Exactly. The lack of development by his own recruits is incredibly troublesome, and unfortunately further improvement next year would be surprising...unless you’re counting on some A-ha moment where things just click. Kuany has the potential to be the best of the 1st recruiting-class bunch, but he’s spent the past 2 years on the bench, with only spot minutes to show. I don’t even want to get started on Lars, who tries real hard but plays sooo much smaller than 7’.
After the first Stanford loss, Fox openly acknowledged a talent deficiency on the team, something you rarely hear a HC admit. That is sooooo not a good look, especially when as HC you recruited/signed 8 of the guys you’re referring to. Incidentally, of the 3 anchors to your roster, none were recruited by Fox. This is bad.
Trying to think through marginal changes to marginal improvement really isn't the way forward with the current program.
No. They’re def gonna need lightning in a bottle w/ some unexpected 3* recruit going full-on Ryan Anderson and flipping the script a little, esp. when Bradley grad transfers to Michigan next season. Feel bad saying this, but it was a little disappointing to hear a couple of mediocre seniors are returning for another year in ‘21-‘22 after the COVID eligibility waiver, as they’re blocking the PT of others...
I've come to the conclusion that it's going to take a complete bottoming out (yes, worse than this season) and a staff changover. And that will mean a couple more seasons of this level of play.
This is the most likely outcome, as the regression of this team in ‘20-‘21 back to the basically unwatchable messes of the Wyking-era are really negative signs. By the time it’s all said and done, it’s probably 10 years of utter irrelevance...
That's a good question: What does the AD want out of the men's basketball program? I know next year (if Covid is gone, a big if) then it will be interesting to see how many folks show up at Haas. I suspect it will take a long time to recover the fanbase which is shrinking with each passing year of futility.
Even Twist, who has had season tickets, and unfailingly has shown up to a majority of the games isn't going to renew.
Maybe it’s faulty memory, but the Berkeley disruption to preseason practice seemed way more than schools in other geographies experienced. The teammates had to be outside and couldn’t even touch the same ball all summer. If defense takes more practice to get right, I am unsurprised at the result and chalk up this season as doomed from the start because of Berkeley’s health restrictions.
That plays a part sure. But I think the issue is there wasn’t any improvement when that didn’t affect us the rest of the year. I’ve said this a bunch of times but we’re the only team in conference that didn’t have a delay or cancellation of practice or games after the season began. We had injuries but that happens every season and is part of sports. We’ve actually gotten continually worse as the season went on and if not for Washington we’d be at the dead bottom in-terms of statistics.
To me it's not necessarily specific positions (pending anybody leaving early) as it is skill sets. This team needs a rim protector badly, and could very much benefit from more incisive passing from perimeter ball handlers.
The seasons not even over. No one of note is entering the portal this early. Wait until the summer
The quickest way to improvement is changing out the head coach. Changing or adding one or two players will not make much of a difference.