"He’s found a program on the respirator and leeched off what money he can before he sails off into retirement."
This almost needs a retraction. Source? Regardless of his failures as Cal's HC, in the hundreds of articles I have read over the years, not one has ever suggested Fox is anything but a decent, stand-up guy.
Fox is incompetent as is Knownuttin. It is as simple as that.
For any of us, I'm assuming all if not most, that have been in the business world (real world) we already know that!! Hell we've known that since the day they were hired? I personally wrote Knownuttin an email stating he was incompetent. He responded how, "that hurts and he hopes to prove me wrong." That email was sent over a year ago!
I, like you, live in the real world and KNOW that both Fox and Knownuttin are big time, real time losers!!
This is simple.
I fire peeps and I'll fire you and your kin, matters not to me. If you suck, you gone!!
Beg to differ. There are pockets of subcultures, where a more general norm is not the same as those subcultures. There are people who live in a bubble, completely or partially oblivious to what outsiders see and experience.
Lots of brave souls, say brave things on the internet, while sitting comfortably in their mother’s basement.
Some sit on a wrap around porch wondering what’s wrong with mediocre revenue sports.
wow. only on a CAL board would ppl digress into a semantics issue, and genuinely care about it. like i'm gonna venture a guess this doesn't happen on many if any SEC teams' boards? like many of you, i love CAL so much, reading this poor treatment of our brave student athletes hurts; my experiences there impacted my life in so many positive ways and infused me with a curious nature that i maintain to this day.
Just a quibble and no dig was intended fro anyone on this board.
Just to be clear. ;)
Yes, when I first arrived at Cal, I noticed the bathroom graffiti was definitely more cerebral than "Linda's phone number..." Why should this fan site be any different? LOL
so incompetent, potential examples of the Peter Principle, except they are waaaay beyond "respective incompetence." this is historical incompetence.
also, thank you for saying this.
you know, my first reaction to you calling them losers was that it was harsh and not cool. then i thought about it and that reaction was knee-jerk to not calling out our brave CAL student-athletes, but these are supposed professionals, so gloves off.
not to be mean; but to be honest, to find the truth, and to work with the truth. fiat lux!
they are each receiving a huge salary, great benefits, plus generous CalPERS or UC Regents retirement packages. neither of them is earning those things. by not facing facts and being honest, by not having respect for the institution, by not having enough self-respect to do their best or be honest that they are lazy (basically acting like an adult in the real world) they are losers.
let me be clear, tho: they are not losers because they failed.
they are losers because of the way they failed, and they way they each react to their failure, and they way they continue their failures despite the obviousness of it, and their own awareness. and i say all of this just about mens hoops. knowlton is worse of course bc of all the other areas in which he has failed - like the women's swim coach, the wilcox extension, etc. ad naus.
Actually, it's shame on the Chancellor. She keeps Jk around and extended him "for life".
I do think calling JK a loser is unfair. He was in over his head when he was hired. If any of us business people would have reviewed his resume, he never would have received an interview. (He would have been a quick auto-reject by my resume scan.)
My point is that to lose, you have to be able to play the D1 game, and he cannot as he is a D3'er.
Fox would also never had been hired if I was on the search committee. I might have given him a courtesy interview, but it would have been one of the last, and only for intelligence gathering. But since he is the HC and its his job to get W's, yeah, Loser.
Yes, I read the BI article. Too early to form an opinion. Bloesch says all the right things but what coach doesn't in an interview. I think there is some talent currently in the OL room that can be developed. However we still need additions through the portal and on that front, I haven't seen Bloesch bring anyone in...yet. All TBD for now.
“If they fire him,” said one program insider on Sunday, “the next guy will probably just lose, too.”
Yeah, but only because Knowlton will choose the next coach. Basketball rebuilds can happen fast, and it wasn't that long ago that we were respectable. There's no reason why we can't be a conference average team like we've been for most of the program's history.
I took issue with that silly quote from an unnamed source as well. 5 different coaches in the last 30 years were successful…only the past 2 overmatched buffoons lost.
“They’re clueless. The ADs they hire have backgrounds in rowing, field hockey, ice hockey and wrestling. It’s not what you need if you want to promote revenue-generating sports.”
This is an odd statement made by an anonymous staffer because it encompasses some decent Cal AD, by revenue-sports standard. Rowing is Steve Gladstone (who hired Tedford). Field Hockey is Sandy Barbour (who had success at Cal and even more so at Penn State in the revenue sports). Knowlton is Ice Hockey. Mike Williams is Wrestling. Other than Gladstone who coached men's rowing at Cal, the listed sports are just what these people played in college. Many people are good revenue-sports AD without having played football or men's basketball at a D1 level.
I agree. Our ADs have not been uniformly bad, but it is probably unusual that none/or so few have come out of the revenue sports. Wasn't Jack Clark an interim for awhile, before or after Gladstone? He was a football player and rugby player, and even signed with the Eagles before he found his calling.
A lot of times the factor we don’t think about is whether or not said coach or person is even interested in becoming an AD/HC/AHC/OC/DC. Sometime guys are really just comfortable where they are or enjoy what they do that they’re not looking for that step up in responsibility or administration
Whodathunk a stint at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Newellbany’s stomping ground of the 518 would fail to prepare this overmatched colonel for the challenges that Cal poses…
More, the military schools are really a thing unto themselves. Besides beating the other military schools, I'm not sure what the expectations are for those programs. There are a lot of built in excuses -- mainly that they can only accept a certain type of student/athlete, one who doesn't really have professional aspirations as an athlete given their post-graduate military obligations. Until now, Knowlton has probably taken comfort in a lot of the obstacles peculiar to Cal--higher admissions standards, antiquated facilities, bureaucratic inertia, etc. Those have give him some cover and probably explain why he was interested in this job in the first place.
Moreover, his Air Force experience is really government experience, as Congress ultimately controls their budgets. Go along to get along.
Academy fund-raising is a whole different ballgame than P5. It's easy to run 27 sports at AF when every student on campus already has a full ride. Flying commercial is luxurious relative to an AF cargo plane.
Well said and sad to know this truth. Seems we are merely naming the colors in the rainbow now. Different ways in which things are horrible. Yet what remains most important is the pure white light of sunshine pointing to what must happen.
The Cal donors left who care about the grades and academics more than on-court results (yes, they exist)
Hi, it’s me. I’m the problem. It’s me.
You both forgot about the shoes.
I do not agree that my small little piece of loyalty to student athletes is leading to a safety buffer for anyone.
Do I think academics and preparation for a future outside of basketball is important for students? Yes I do.
Do I believe that there are no methods to support students to be academically excellent or to draw students with the academic acumen to be successful at Cal? I do not.
I supported a study and learning center for Haas, not the hot mess of our coaching staff nor their performance then or now. And I’ll continue to be supportive of student athletes who come to practice, play their hearts out, and keep their eyes on the reality of after college lives that include careers outside of basketball.
Donors who care more about academics couldn’t help buy out one day of the necessary contract/recruitment costs. And I don’t hear anyone agreeing with the various attempts to deflect accountability at the events I attend. Except for the shoes. That made sense. 💀
To clarify, my comment wasn't meant to be glib. It's more of an explainer to those unfamiliar with the Cal donor breakdown and why our prioritization framework differs from other programs and why we might be more patient with Mark Fox than any other Power 5 program.
Not sure I understand the comment about shoes. But I will note that academic success does not have to mean a 2 win basketball team. If we don't want to compete with other top academic schools (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, Michigan, Virginia, UCLA....) on the field, then we might as well drop divisions.
At a recent donor breakfast we heard about how the UA sponsorship has been a problem for recruiting because the kids want Jordan’s and not UA kicks and the soon return of Nike is going to solve our recruiting challenges at the AAU level.
thanks for responding. I can understand that UA is not as popular as Nike. But note, Uncle Phil only has 52% of the FBS market. What about ~30% supported by Adidas? (Since Adidas just rolled out a big NIL program, I'm guessing their kicks are ok?
My fear is that a similar article will be written about the Cal football team at the conclusion of the 2023 season. Cal, as noted here, is dealing with the same incompetent AD who thought it prudent to give Wilcox an extension and a raise after a Wilcox took a 2021 team loaded with veterans and managed to produce his fifth straight losing record in a conference that quite possibly had its worst collection of teams ever. Wilcox has some new coaches that look promising on paper, but you can't change the spots on the dog who is leading the show.
I've been saying for awhile that the Chancellor has approved going cheap -- just break even. But what I don't understand is if we are going cheap, why have expensive coaches? We could get an up-and-comer with big incentives for <$1m. Why give Fox & Wilcox long-term expensive contracts?
OTOH, if a young up-and-comer has success, they'll leave, and then JK would have to go replace them. And show again he is out of his element.
Totally. I get that we are under-resourced, but we've also failed to get whatever value we can get out of those limited resources. They are being poorly managed. My only guess for a rationale is that maybe having a coach that is paid closer to the middle of the conference pack maybe provides some cover for some of the other inequities in spending, ie. maybe makes it seem we're in a better resource position then we actually are? I don't know.
Some of those late era Braun teams were frustrating to watch on offense. Very little movement, but better players. He’s a great guy. I see him in my neighborhood every once in awhile. Doesn’t have a care in the world. He started a family late and seems to be enjoying the perks of that + retiring young.
Very good guy. A close friend of mine is one of his best buds from Chicago…they went to New Trier HS together. Agreed that the motion offense can get awfully stagnant if you don’t have the right personnel…but he got good players, and Haas was rocking, dude. Great times.
When we were at some lightly-attended tournament in Anaheim to support Cal, Braun was there with Rice. We showed him some love from the stands and I didn't even realize just how much he deserved it at the time.
I see no difference between that description of Braun and what Fox looks to do. Except Braun’s offense fit the era and the skill sets of the players at the time.
People also forget Braun coached the #1 3PT shooting team in the country one year and 3 of the top 15/20 players that season as well.
I guess things could get worse. https://apnews.com/article/sports-mike-peake-new-mexico-mens-basketball-c9db140c4f3dad2a92ce2e8c35d94a8b?user_email=0cdc72e30d67d30c56049ef6339ac64ebe81625ad39f716c0c654424c407dfeb&utm_medium=Morning_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=Feb11_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
"He’s found a program on the respirator and leeched off what money he can before he sails off into retirement."
This almost needs a retraction. Source? Regardless of his failures as Cal's HC, in the hundreds of articles I have read over the years, not one has ever suggested Fox is anything but a decent, stand-up guy.
I don't care what sport Knowlton or Fox played or when they played it. They both have to go.
Fox is incompetent as is Knownuttin. It is as simple as that.
For any of us, I'm assuming all if not most, that have been in the business world (real world) we already know that!! Hell we've known that since the day they were hired? I personally wrote Knownuttin an email stating he was incompetent. He responded how, "that hurts and he hopes to prove me wrong." That email was sent over a year ago!
I, like you, live in the real world and KNOW that both Fox and Knownuttin are big time, real time losers!!
This is simple.
I fire peeps and I'll fire you and your kin, matters not to me. If you suck, you gone!!
The whole world is "real," all of it. The use of the term "real world" is a case of grammatical fiction. Otherwise your points are spot on.
Beg to differ. There are pockets of subcultures, where a more general norm is not the same as those subcultures. There are people who live in a bubble, completely or partially oblivious to what outsiders see and experience.
Lots of brave souls, say brave things on the internet, while sitting comfortably in their mother’s basement.
Some sit on a wrap around porch wondering what’s wrong with mediocre revenue sports.
wow. only on a CAL board would ppl digress into a semantics issue, and genuinely care about it. like i'm gonna venture a guess this doesn't happen on many if any SEC teams' boards? like many of you, i love CAL so much, reading this poor treatment of our brave student athletes hurts; my experiences there impacted my life in so many positive ways and infused me with a curious nature that i maintain to this day.
why can't we have the nice things?
Just a quibble and no dig was intended fro anyone on this board.
Just to be clear. ;)
Yes, when I first arrived at Cal, I noticed the bathroom graffiti was definitely more cerebral than "Linda's phone number..." Why should this fan site be any different? LOL
so incompetent, potential examples of the Peter Principle, except they are waaaay beyond "respective incompetence." this is historical incompetence.
also, thank you for saying this.
you know, my first reaction to you calling them losers was that it was harsh and not cool. then i thought about it and that reaction was knee-jerk to not calling out our brave CAL student-athletes, but these are supposed professionals, so gloves off.
not to be mean; but to be honest, to find the truth, and to work with the truth. fiat lux!
they are each receiving a huge salary, great benefits, plus generous CalPERS or UC Regents retirement packages. neither of them is earning those things. by not facing facts and being honest, by not having respect for the institution, by not having enough self-respect to do their best or be honest that they are lazy (basically acting like an adult in the real world) they are losers.
let me be clear, tho: they are not losers because they failed.
they are losers because of the way they failed, and they way they each react to their failure, and they way they continue their failures despite the obviousness of it, and their own awareness. and i say all of this just about mens hoops. knowlton is worse of course bc of all the other areas in which he has failed - like the women's swim coach, the wilcox extension, etc. ad naus.
shame on you mark fox.
shame on you jim knowlton.
too bad none of ya has any shame.
Actually, it's shame on the Chancellor. She keeps Jk around and extended him "for life".
I do think calling JK a loser is unfair. He was in over his head when he was hired. If any of us business people would have reviewed his resume, he never would have received an interview. (He would have been a quick auto-reject by my resume scan.)
My point is that to lose, you have to be able to play the D1 game, and he cannot as he is a D3'er.
Fox would also never had been hired if I was on the search committee. I might have given him a courtesy interview, but it would have been one of the last, and only for intelligence gathering. But since he is the HC and its his job to get W's, yeah, Loser.
I nominate GEAT from W4C and Shocky1 from BI.
Assuming, of course, they aren’t the same person.
May God have mercy on the committee.
Yes, I read the BI article. Too early to form an opinion. Bloesch says all the right things but what coach doesn't in an interview. I think there is some talent currently in the OL room that can be developed. However we still need additions through the portal and on that front, I haven't seen Bloesch bring anyone in...yet. All TBD for now.
What we would give just to be at competitive level w Braun. Has it really been 10 years when we had a top 5 seed in MM bracket w Martin?
“If they fire him,” said one program insider on Sunday, “the next guy will probably just lose, too.”
Yeah, but only because Knowlton will choose the next coach. Basketball rebuilds can happen fast, and it wasn't that long ago that we were respectable. There's no reason why we can't be a conference average team like we've been for most of the program's history.
I took issue with that silly quote from an unnamed source as well. 5 different coaches in the last 30 years were successful…only the past 2 overmatched buffoons lost.
That was a stupid quote…
Glad that Cal still flies the team to games. Why not walk to save money and get in shape?
This is how I always imagined the LA Clippers of the 1980s.
“They’re clueless. The ADs they hire have backgrounds in rowing, field hockey, ice hockey and wrestling. It’s not what you need if you want to promote revenue-generating sports.”
This is an odd statement made by an anonymous staffer because it encompasses some decent Cal AD, by revenue-sports standard. Rowing is Steve Gladstone (who hired Tedford). Field Hockey is Sandy Barbour (who had success at Cal and even more so at Penn State in the revenue sports). Knowlton is Ice Hockey. Mike Williams is Wrestling. Other than Gladstone who coached men's rowing at Cal, the listed sports are just what these people played in college. Many people are good revenue-sports AD without having played football or men's basketball at a D1 level.
I agree. Our ADs have not been uniformly bad, but it is probably unusual that none/or so few have come out of the revenue sports. Wasn't Jack Clark an interim for awhile, before or after Gladstone? He was a football player and rugby player, and even signed with the Eagles before he found his calling.
A lot of times the factor we don’t think about is whether or not said coach or person is even interested in becoming an AD/HC/AHC/OC/DC. Sometime guys are really just comfortable where they are or enjoy what they do that they’re not looking for that step up in responsibility or administration
I bumped into Clark maybe a month a ago and laughingly asked him if he would consider becoming our AD. His words: “Not on your life!”
Now THERE is a man who understands the job.
Yuuuuuup hahaha that’s been his answer that I’ve heard everytime someone asked him.
Yeah that one seemed a bit unfair and not borne out by the evidence. Unless thaf staffer's particular bias is to chop non-revenue sports.
That was weird, although I guess the anger is more on treating all sports the same when clearly two are what stir the shake?
The bigger disqualifier is lack of P5 athletic admin experience, which both apply to Williams and Knowlton.
Whodathunk a stint at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Newellbany’s stomping ground of the 518 would fail to prepare this overmatched colonel for the challenges that Cal poses…
More, the military schools are really a thing unto themselves. Besides beating the other military schools, I'm not sure what the expectations are for those programs. There are a lot of built in excuses -- mainly that they can only accept a certain type of student/athlete, one who doesn't really have professional aspirations as an athlete given their post-graduate military obligations. Until now, Knowlton has probably taken comfort in a lot of the obstacles peculiar to Cal--higher admissions standards, antiquated facilities, bureaucratic inertia, etc. Those have give him some cover and probably explain why he was interested in this job in the first place.
Moreover, his Air Force experience is really government experience, as Congress ultimately controls their budgets. Go along to get along.
Academy fund-raising is a whole different ballgame than P5. It's easy to run 27 sports at AF when every student on campus already has a full ride. Flying commercial is luxurious relative to an AF cargo plane.
Yes, MBB and CFB stir the shake...at Cal, they do so standing on a wrap around porch.
Exactly!
Good God, it's somehow worse than I thought. And I am no pollyanna.
Well said and sad to know this truth. Seems we are merely naming the colors in the rainbow now. Different ways in which things are horrible. Yet what remains most important is the pure white light of sunshine pointing to what must happen.
The Cal donors left who care about the grades and academics more than on-court results (yes, they exist)
Hi, it’s me. I’m the problem. It’s me.
You both forgot about the shoes.
I do not agree that my small little piece of loyalty to student athletes is leading to a safety buffer for anyone.
Do I think academics and preparation for a future outside of basketball is important for students? Yes I do.
Do I believe that there are no methods to support students to be academically excellent or to draw students with the academic acumen to be successful at Cal? I do not.
I supported a study and learning center for Haas, not the hot mess of our coaching staff nor their performance then or now. And I’ll continue to be supportive of student athletes who come to practice, play their hearts out, and keep their eyes on the reality of after college lives that include careers outside of basketball.
Donors who care more about academics couldn’t help buy out one day of the necessary contract/recruitment costs. And I don’t hear anyone agreeing with the various attempts to deflect accountability at the events I attend. Except for the shoes. That made sense. 💀
To clarify, my comment wasn't meant to be glib. It's more of an explainer to those unfamiliar with the Cal donor breakdown and why our prioritization framework differs from other programs and why we might be more patient with Mark Fox than any other Power 5 program.
Not sure I understand the comment about shoes. But I will note that academic success does not have to mean a 2 win basketball team. If we don't want to compete with other top academic schools (Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, Michigan, Virginia, UCLA....) on the field, then we might as well drop divisions.
https://nusports.com/news/2022/6/14/general-10-northwestern-programs-earn-perfect-apr-scores-from-ncaa.aspx
https://mgoblue.com/news/2022/6/14/general-five-u-m-teams-post-perfect-multiyear-scores-in-apr-report.aspx
At a recent donor breakfast we heard about how the UA sponsorship has been a problem for recruiting because the kids want Jordan’s and not UA kicks and the soon return of Nike is going to solve our recruiting challenges at the AAU level.
LMAO
thanks for responding. I can understand that UA is not as popular as Nike. But note, Uncle Phil only has 52% of the FBS market. What about ~30% supported by Adidas? (Since Adidas just rolled out a big NIL program, I'm guessing their kicks are ok?
Bah-hah!!!!!
My fear is that a similar article will be written about the Cal football team at the conclusion of the 2023 season. Cal, as noted here, is dealing with the same incompetent AD who thought it prudent to give Wilcox an extension and a raise after a Wilcox took a 2021 team loaded with veterans and managed to produce his fifth straight losing record in a conference that quite possibly had its worst collection of teams ever. Wilcox has some new coaches that look promising on paper, but you can't change the spots on the dog who is leading the show.
great work, Avi.
I've been saying for awhile that the Chancellor has approved going cheap -- just break even. But what I don't understand is if we are going cheap, why have expensive coaches? We could get an up-and-comer with big incentives for <$1m. Why give Fox & Wilcox long-term expensive contracts?
OTOH, if a young up-and-comer has success, they'll leave, and then JK would have to go replace them. And show again he is out of his element.
Totally. I get that we are under-resourced, but we've also failed to get whatever value we can get out of those limited resources. They are being poorly managed. My only guess for a rationale is that maybe having a coach that is paid closer to the middle of the conference pack maybe provides some cover for some of the other inequities in spending, ie. maybe makes it seem we're in a better resource position then we actually are? I don't know.
Oregon State coach 4-5 in 2019, made $1.9m, on his way to EARN a big extension
Wilcox 2019, 4-5, made $2.9m, on his way to a big extension (for having a pulse)
Yeah, academics, covid, HCOL, blah, blah, blah. (not you, but JK)
Thank you. Awesome work, Avi! Great stuff!
We never really appreciated Braun till reaching these depths
I’m a big Braun fan…he loved Berkeley and the school…would probably be there still.
The motion offense is tough…you really got to set picks, and the P12 stripes love blowing the whistle on those now..but Braun recruited. Fox does not…
Some of those late era Braun teams were frustrating to watch on offense. Very little movement, but better players. He’s a great guy. I see him in my neighborhood every once in awhile. Doesn’t have a care in the world. He started a family late and seems to be enjoying the perks of that + retiring young.
Very good guy. A close friend of mine is one of his best buds from Chicago…they went to New Trier HS together. Agreed that the motion offense can get awfully stagnant if you don’t have the right personnel…but he got good players, and Haas was rocking, dude. Great times.
When we were at some lightly-attended tournament in Anaheim to support Cal, Braun was there with Rice. We showed him some love from the stands and I didn't even realize just how much he deserved it at the time.
Braun had a ceiling, but I never lost interest in his teams. Between the Pac 12 Network and this futility, it's hard to remain focused on MBB.
I was always a Braun fan. For an outsider, he really "got" Berkeley.
I see no difference between that description of Braun and what Fox looks to do. Except Braun’s offense fit the era and the skill sets of the players at the time.
People also forget Braun coached the #1 3PT shooting team in the country one year and 3 of the top 15/20 players that season as well.
Recruited and developed.
at least it was an "offense". Really hard to use that noun in Fox's game.
well Fox’s game is highly offensive and i take offense to his continued employment by Cal. haha
In a very large way, the bubble that the Pac 12 Network has created has given this experiment in futility cover.
Ay, ay. Guilty.