Leaving everything else aside, if Madsen is to be believed that he wants to build a power program, Cal offers the greater potential to do so. BYU has the higher floor and consistency by virtue of the fact that it can mine talent from a deeply loyal and dedicated pool of players of Mormon faith, several of whom will mature longer in age and experience over their college careers. Although he would have to contend with the disruption of players leaving on missions, I suspect the year to year NIL roster turbulence is much lighter. But we offer a higher ceiling (albeit with a much, much deeper floor). It’s hard to get elite talent to Provo. Will be interesting to see what he prioritizes more: stability or the chance to build s contending program.
I don't believe this is true. For at least an average coach, Cal has a higher floor because we are a P5 program in a talent rich state. There simply just aren't that many high end D1 Mormon players, but there are a lot of good players that would not want to go to a religious school. We hit the floor because we manage to hire back to back, the worst coaches in program history, and frankly, among the worst coaches I've ever seen in the Pac. Wyking and Fox would've set losing records at BYU too.
We'll agree to disagree then. Cal has a lower floor because we did just go 3 and whatever 2 years ago. Whatever the reasons, that happened here. I could never envision that level of futility at BYU. That was not only a failure of our coaches, but of the athletic department. And the same department and AD that oversaw that travesty--and the larger culture that was indifferent to it--is still in place. And while BYU does have a more limited talent pool, that talent pool is also more loyal. Again, stability, but with a lower ceiling.
You don't have to imagine it. It happened. Against MWC competition no less.
BYU 1996: 1-25
BYU 1997: 9-21
BYU 2004: 9-21
Non-bluebloods can easily bottom out with a bad coaching hire. Until Wyking and Fox I cannot remember a season as bad as any of the above in my lifetime. It was really unthinkable for us to only win 3 games as a program. BYU's "floor" has been buoyed by a couple of pretty good coaches.
Yeah, would be a step down really. Only angle would be Mormon one, but presumably he would have gone to college at BYU if that was what mattered to him most.
That may be, but your talent-pool is probably limited as well. Plus, program-wise, and from a success standpoint, it’s a remarkably similar job at a football-first school.
Don't forget who the BYU AD is. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried hard to pry him away just to stick it to Cal. He probably STILL believes he was fired as our football coach unfairly, even though he sent the program into depths unseen since Marv Levy (ironically) in the 60's.
You're missing a salient fact in your (bitter) narrative: Holmoe tried to resign twice but John Kasser refused the resignation each time. This allowed Kasser to palm off the football HC problem to Steve Gladstone, who accepted Holmoe's resignation in 2001 and subsequently hired Jeff Tedford.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that Holmoe won't try mightily to get Madsen to come to BYU. In fact, I think it happens for the simple reason that I cannot see the commitment necessary from the Cal alumni and major donors, Jim Knowlton, and possibly the next Chancellor, Rich Lyons. It sure as hell wasn't coming from Christ.
I believe that Cal is at odds with itself in building an Athletic Department that values strong revenue sports. I've read that there's a push to make the NIL collective a force, but until it happens and I can see the effect on the football, MBB, and WBB programs, I'll remain skeptical.
Gee, I guess I shouldn't have been bitter about the worst coach in Cal history? #SMH At least I still supported the team. Did YOU go to the final game at Rutgers? I'm guessing that's a no.
I guess I struck a nerve. You started it; why can't you just let it go? I could care less what you think of me; my life will be hunky dory regardless. 🙄
I don't think Holme bears any grudges towards Cal. He was given five years and can have no complaints and has in fact expressed remorse at how poorly his tenure wen here. He was a terrible football coach but is not a bad person and certainly not someone who would want to "stick it" to a university for something that happened 23 years ago.
As your narrative implies, context matters. Holmoe followed the one-year stint of Steve Mariucci, who followed the 4-year misadventure of Keith Gilbertson.
Keith Gilbertson was hired by Bob Bockrath in the wake of Bruce Snyder's leaving for Arizona State in January 1992. Bockrath could have hired Steve Mariucci, who was Snyder's Offensive Coordinator, but Bockrath thought he knew better and hired Gilbertson who was OC under Don James at UW when the Huskies won the co-national championship in 1991.
Bockrath wasn't around for the fallout as he left at the end of the 1992 season, in which Gilbertson's team underperformed, posting a 4-7 record.
John Kasser fired Gilbertson at the end of the 1995 season. In the subsequent search and hiring process, he was overruled by the alumni search committee. Kasser wanted Bob Davie and had signaled to Davie he was Kasser's choice. But the alumni committee wanted Steve Mariucci who was passed over by Bob Bockrath in 1992.
After a hot start in the '96 season, Mariucci's team cooled to a 6-6 record. This was also the same year in which Eddie DeBartolo basically forced George Seifert, then the 49ers HC, into retirement. Mariucci was DeBartolo's pick to be the new 49ers HC, and Cal was forced to find a new HC. Kasser didn't want to go through the hiring process again with the alumni search committee, so he tried to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Kasser chose Tom Holmoe, DB coach on Mariucci's staff. Eventually, Kasser retired in 2001 and was succeeded by Steve Gladstone on an interim basis. Gladstone, a successful rowing coach, made the choice to hire Jeff Tedford. The consensus was that Gladstone wanted Marvin Lewis, but Lewis was angling for an NFL HC position, which he eventually got with the Cincinnati Bengals in 2003. Lewis turned down the Cal job offer. Gladstone's next choice was Jeff Tedford, and the rest, as they say, became history.
One of Cal football's many sliding doors moments was the hiring of Gilbertson over Mariucci. We could have had five years of Mooch followed by a more thorough search for a successor. Imagine the possibilities.
I have imagined that very scenario a number of times. I stopped when I realized it could drive me to insanity. There was the distinct possibility of a Rose Bowl in that five-year span. I think the '92 team performs better under Mariucci than they did under Gilbertson. And the '93 team might have better weathered the 4-game loss of Dave Barr to a shoulder separation or possibly not suffered that loss at all. I have two words for you and everyone else: Kerry McGonigal.
This has been a peek into FiatSlug's fevered brain from the Holmoe period.
I don’t see this happening
It’s not.
Coach with an awesome tweet 10 minutes ago. Hopefully that ends this speculation.
Leaving everything else aside, if Madsen is to be believed that he wants to build a power program, Cal offers the greater potential to do so. BYU has the higher floor and consistency by virtue of the fact that it can mine talent from a deeply loyal and dedicated pool of players of Mormon faith, several of whom will mature longer in age and experience over their college careers. Although he would have to contend with the disruption of players leaving on missions, I suspect the year to year NIL roster turbulence is much lighter. But we offer a higher ceiling (albeit with a much, much deeper floor). It’s hard to get elite talent to Provo. Will be interesting to see what he prioritizes more: stability or the chance to build s contending program.
I don't believe this is true. For at least an average coach, Cal has a higher floor because we are a P5 program in a talent rich state. There simply just aren't that many high end D1 Mormon players, but there are a lot of good players that would not want to go to a religious school. We hit the floor because we manage to hire back to back, the worst coaches in program history, and frankly, among the worst coaches I've ever seen in the Pac. Wyking and Fox would've set losing records at BYU too.
We'll agree to disagree then. Cal has a lower floor because we did just go 3 and whatever 2 years ago. Whatever the reasons, that happened here. I could never envision that level of futility at BYU. That was not only a failure of our coaches, but of the athletic department. And the same department and AD that oversaw that travesty--and the larger culture that was indifferent to it--is still in place. And while BYU does have a more limited talent pool, that talent pool is also more loyal. Again, stability, but with a lower ceiling.
You don't have to imagine it. It happened. Against MWC competition no less.
BYU 1996: 1-25
BYU 1997: 9-21
BYU 2004: 9-21
Non-bluebloods can easily bottom out with a bad coaching hire. Until Wyking and Fox I cannot remember a season as bad as any of the above in my lifetime. It was really unthinkable for us to only win 3 games as a program. BYU's "floor" has been buoyed by a couple of pretty good coaches.
Facts! I stand corrected then. :)
I’d be more surprised if he left for BYU than I would have been had he bolted for ‘Furd.
Plus it’s at best a lateral move.
Yeah, would be a step down really. Only angle would be Mormon one, but presumably he would have gone to college at BYU if that was what mattered to him most.
I mostly agree, except that I think the BYU gig probably offers more year-to-year roster stability than us and the Furd.
That may be, but your talent-pool is probably limited as well. Plus, program-wise, and from a success standpoint, it’s a remarkably similar job at a football-first school.
I thought Stanford was more of a threat.
JK: oh shit, guess I need to fly back to Berkeley this week.
Don't forget who the BYU AD is. I wouldn't be surprised if he tried hard to pry him away just to stick it to Cal. He probably STILL believes he was fired as our football coach unfairly, even though he sent the program into depths unseen since Marv Levy (ironically) in the 60's.
You're missing a salient fact in your (bitter) narrative: Holmoe tried to resign twice but John Kasser refused the resignation each time. This allowed Kasser to palm off the football HC problem to Steve Gladstone, who accepted Holmoe's resignation in 2001 and subsequently hired Jeff Tedford.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that Holmoe won't try mightily to get Madsen to come to BYU. In fact, I think it happens for the simple reason that I cannot see the commitment necessary from the Cal alumni and major donors, Jim Knowlton, and possibly the next Chancellor, Rich Lyons. It sure as hell wasn't coming from Christ.
I believe that Cal is at odds with itself in building an Athletic Department that values strong revenue sports. I've read that there's a push to make the NIL collective a force, but until it happens and I can see the effect on the football, MBB, and WBB programs, I'll remain skeptical.
Gee, I guess I shouldn't have been bitter about the worst coach in Cal history? #SMH At least I still supported the team. Did YOU go to the final game at Rutgers? I'm guessing that's a no.
Bitter is as bitter does.
You should really change your handle to FiatSmug. You don't know me, stop trying to demean me to make yourself feel better. 🙄
Dude, stop trying so hard to take pot shots at people you don't know.
Lighten up, Bryan.
I guess I struck a nerve. You started it; why can't you just let it go? I could care less what you think of me; my life will be hunky dory regardless. 🙄
I don't think Holme bears any grudges towards Cal. He was given five years and can have no complaints and has in fact expressed remorse at how poorly his tenure wen here. He was a terrible football coach but is not a bad person and certainly not someone who would want to "stick it" to a university for something that happened 23 years ago.
Not only were we objectively abysmal, but we had just been good right before that, so can’t say he inherited it! I remember it well!
We'd been okay the year before Holmoe arrived going 6-6 with losing seasons the two years before that.
As your narrative implies, context matters. Holmoe followed the one-year stint of Steve Mariucci, who followed the 4-year misadventure of Keith Gilbertson.
Keith Gilbertson was hired by Bob Bockrath in the wake of Bruce Snyder's leaving for Arizona State in January 1992. Bockrath could have hired Steve Mariucci, who was Snyder's Offensive Coordinator, but Bockrath thought he knew better and hired Gilbertson who was OC under Don James at UW when the Huskies won the co-national championship in 1991.
Bockrath wasn't around for the fallout as he left at the end of the 1992 season, in which Gilbertson's team underperformed, posting a 4-7 record.
John Kasser fired Gilbertson at the end of the 1995 season. In the subsequent search and hiring process, he was overruled by the alumni search committee. Kasser wanted Bob Davie and had signaled to Davie he was Kasser's choice. But the alumni committee wanted Steve Mariucci who was passed over by Bob Bockrath in 1992.
After a hot start in the '96 season, Mariucci's team cooled to a 6-6 record. This was also the same year in which Eddie DeBartolo basically forced George Seifert, then the 49ers HC, into retirement. Mariucci was DeBartolo's pick to be the new 49ers HC, and Cal was forced to find a new HC. Kasser didn't want to go through the hiring process again with the alumni search committee, so he tried to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Kasser chose Tom Holmoe, DB coach on Mariucci's staff. Eventually, Kasser retired in 2001 and was succeeded by Steve Gladstone on an interim basis. Gladstone, a successful rowing coach, made the choice to hire Jeff Tedford. The consensus was that Gladstone wanted Marvin Lewis, but Lewis was angling for an NFL HC position, which he eventually got with the Cincinnati Bengals in 2003. Lewis turned down the Cal job offer. Gladstone's next choice was Jeff Tedford, and the rest, as they say, became history.
One of Cal football's many sliding doors moments was the hiring of Gilbertson over Mariucci. We could have had five years of Mooch followed by a more thorough search for a successor. Imagine the possibilities.
I have imagined that very scenario a number of times. I stopped when I realized it could drive me to insanity. There was the distinct possibility of a Rose Bowl in that five-year span. I think the '92 team performs better under Mariucci than they did under Gilbertson. And the '93 team might have better weathered the 4-game loss of Dave Barr to a shoulder separation or possibly not suffered that loss at all. I have two words for you and everyone else: Kerry McGonigal.
This has been a peek into FiatSlug's fevered brain from the Holmoe period.
Might be the one job he leaves you for though.
I think that job was Stanford and not BYU.
The buyout is apparently close to $7M. They’d have to really want him.
We think you mean “effusive” in his praise for Berkeley.
Obviously this was always the real point of this article... that AI is about to mispellus out of existence.
Quick, Extend Madsen for another 7 years!
Good one!!