Death spiral? I guess I'm in the minority on this. I see Cal being left out of the Big 10 a positive development. The reality is Cal football and basketball for decades, hasn't been a true contender in the Pac, with the sole exception of a couple of years which looking back were an anomaly. For the vast majority of that time Cal has been an also-ran, or many years a doormat. For years I've wanted Cal to right-size it's program to the level of it's conference/opponents. This provides a golden opportunity to do that. I for one would love to see Cal go to the Mtn West, Ivy League, or be an Independent. Finally Cal could be competitive in its own conference and have a chance to actually win their conference and/or go to the post season on a regular basis. I would much rather be in a competitive conference of relative equals than be a whooping boy for decades to teams with a stacked deck. That is exactly what Cal would be in the Big 10, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves IMO.
The only downside is how the above might reduce revenue for other sports at Cal. But that will ultimately get figured out through donations (like what happened with Cal baseball). And the argument that it's better to doormat the revenue sports for cash (sacrificial lambs) to support the other sports I'm just not on board with that.
Maybe Cal should do what Univ of Chicago did and just drop football. It would be a bold decision. I know there is big debt with the Memorial Stadium update, and we have a strong alumni base. But Cal should continue to be an intellectual leader. Its mission is the educated the next generation of leaders. And can we really accommodate these huge costs of subsidizing college sports since the Pac 12 crashed? I teach at Cal and i have athletes in my classes. Can they afford missing classes to fly east for events?
The MW would welcome Cal,Oregon St and Washington State. The reality of the situation is the MW with these addtions would be a fine West Coast Conference and will create some great travel opportunits and new rivlaries. I know you all see this as a downgrade but it will be fine.
One thing we can hope is Cal pulls a Robby Benson in One on One and have spectacular years in both revenue sports, than tell everybody all the way with a red hot poker while making the Mountain West the top conference in the nation!
I think Cal and Furd will get an offer, just at a reduced rate. The Big Ten presidents want us for their research consortium (WAY bigger pile of cash than the athletics pie) but Fox doesn't want to foot that bill. At least that's my read. So there's a path.
So does Cal still get the $10 mil from UCLA? Should be enough to be a top 4 or so team annually in the Mountain West in both revenue sports. (bowl games! March Madness invites!)
The two big dog conferences are now, for all intents and purposes, extensions of and beholden to their media owners. The Big 10 and SEC are “cover names” for what is in reality the Fox Sports conference and the ESPN conference. The Apple+ streaming conference just doesn’t rate. If you can’t get your product distributed on television and cable, you are not going to compete with the big boys and can expect your primary assets (high visibility, revenue producing flagship teams) to be strip mined by the top tier media conglomerates. The NCAA, who in theory should play some sort of oversight role to maintain stability and integrity, is impotent and irrelevant. Yes, some of this sounds a bit tin-foil-hatish but I think it is reality.
The fact that SEC and Big 10 big brass sought out or responded favorably to the new rules imposed by media (Fox/ESPN) has provided valuable cover for schools that would otherwise be in Cal’s position. I’m thinking of Northwestern and Vanderbilt – institutions where academics and research remain primary. These schools understandably found their place in major conferences when college sports operated in a different era with different rules. If either the SEC or Big 10 had bungled themselves into the predicament that the Pac 12 finds itself in, these schools would likely be facing the same doom loop that Cal is looking down the barrel at.
I am a proud Cal alum and do not like any of this at all. I fondly recall watching (as recently as the 1990’s and even early 2000’s) when Michigan or Ohio State would win their rivalry game and all the players rushed to the sideline to grab their red roses. Yes – the Rose Bowl is what we play for! Sadly, those days are long gone. Selling out to the highest bidder is the new game (think Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights shouting out to his corporate sponsors), college sports has been fully NASCAR-ized and monetized.
This was all foreseen by sages such as Dale Brown, former head basketball coach at LSU, as well as others. Seek out some of his interviews and videos from the late 1980’s and early 1990s – he saw and sounded the alarm around where all of this was headed, long before we had the BCS, CFP, expanded CFP and NCAA tourneys, transfer portal/NIL, and media-driven conference realignment.
I would love it if somewhere in the spreadsheets and deal making that is going on behind the scenes that # of nobel laureates, history and tradition, geographic affinity, and consideration for the “student athletes” were major factors but sadly they are not. The Arizona (and presumably Arizona St) case proves this out. Would a major conference rather have (a) two average/below average academic schools in smaller media markets but with one of them bringing along the potential for top-tier, national revenue generating ability (Arizona basketball), or (b) two elite, powerhouse academic institutions in larger media markets but with little/no near-term potential for their major sports programs to be nationally relevant? I think the answer to this question is playing out before our eyes right now.
As a Bay Area Michigan alum, I REALLY hope the B1G finds a way to get Cal and Stanford into the conference. And that's not just for selfish reasons in getting to attend Michigan games without having to travel across multiple times zones; it's because of how much we have in common with UC-Berkeley as a university. Hell, we even share the same colors.
Having said that, I wouldn't lose hope yet, Cal fans. Cal and Stanford would be great additions for their academic prestige alone. I know the B1G university presidents are salivating at the thought of adding academic powerhouses like Cal and Stanford alongside schools like Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Purdue. And the Big XII is not a good fit for Cal and Stanford for that very reason. If they're willing to accept a lower revenue share than UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, and the existing members (which would still be significantly more than what they're getting from the Pac-??, with greater potential for growth due to the wider TV exposure), then there's no reason why a deal can't be worked out. The B1G would likely also want Cal to present a concrete plan for how it plans to alleviate its heavy debt load without needing subsidies from the B1G.
It benefits Oregon long-term to stick in the Pac for a bit to improve their B1G negotiating position and/or hope the conference rebuilds itself, but I just am finding it hard to believe this Apple deal is enough of a pacifier. In any case, maybe they can keep the conference together long enough for us to replace our AD and chancellor with a couple who actually have a pair, and might actually have a plans for these scenarios. Despite seeing the train from miles away, we continue to appear to be caught off guard.
Another notion, how about becoming an independent? That way we'll play really good football schools because we've become such a doormat we'll be each school's number one choice for their homecoming games?
How about switching from FBS to FCS and our new archenemy can become Cal Poly San Luis Obispo? That ought to pack Memorial stadium. Ticket scalpers will have a field day.
Cal - I am invincible and you have made me this way.
I am the third generation of my family to be Bears fans. Nearly half a century ago, I sat in traffic and had terrible parking only to sit in nosebleeds to watch us lose to San Jose State. I've furiously dialed on the phone to try to get classes on Tele*Bears only to get shut out. I've been hassled by the local colorful characters every time I visit Berkeley's well-textured roads and sidewalks.
Year after year, I hope for the best and am crushed by sub-par performance on the field, court, [not you, Cal watersports], and track. Over and over, you find ways to ensure that I am exposed to challenges that force me to adapt and endure.
And yet, I will not quit. I will not die. I have followed you across the country from Texas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Indiana and other places afar. As I watch my own body whither and lose its once okay-ish power, I will watch us atrophy as struggle to be competitive against once previously deemed lesser teams. But I will persevere. I will learn to love the rivalry of playing against new teams and traveling to new towns that I would have never been scheduled had Cal stayed in a Power 5 conference.
I have to admit - I didn't see this coming and it is diabolically clever attack. But, you have taught me how to smile and have a good time as I roll with your punches.
What a difference a day makes! Bugger Jim Knowlton, bugger Carol Christ, bugger Mike Williams! Shame on all of you inept bast---s. Cal will now be joining Chico St, Davis, Fresno St, Sonoma St, Merced, San Bernardino, Irvine, and Santa Cruz in the Greater Central Valley AC. Oh well. at least athletic dept. travel costs will decline significantly. The academic senate must be rejoicing and the intramural sports dept. is staffing up. Cal will be signing a uniform deal with Jockey Shorts.
Can't believe this 60 years a cal fan and will continue to be.College sports used to be fun .No loyalty left.Ucla usc the pac 8 then pac 10 and finally pac 12 gave them the platform for 60 years to become house hold name brands.Greed ruining college sports.I guess that's all that matters. GO BEARS.
Death spiral? I guess I'm in the minority on this. I see Cal being left out of the Big 10 a positive development. The reality is Cal football and basketball for decades, hasn't been a true contender in the Pac, with the sole exception of a couple of years which looking back were an anomaly. For the vast majority of that time Cal has been an also-ran, or many years a doormat. For years I've wanted Cal to right-size it's program to the level of it's conference/opponents. This provides a golden opportunity to do that. I for one would love to see Cal go to the Mtn West, Ivy League, or be an Independent. Finally Cal could be competitive in its own conference and have a chance to actually win their conference and/or go to the post season on a regular basis. I would much rather be in a competitive conference of relative equals than be a whooping boy for decades to teams with a stacked deck. That is exactly what Cal would be in the Big 10, anyone who says otherwise is deluding themselves IMO.
The only downside is how the above might reduce revenue for other sports at Cal. But that will ultimately get figured out through donations (like what happened with Cal baseball). And the argument that it's better to doormat the revenue sports for cash (sacrificial lambs) to support the other sports I'm just not on board with that.
Maybe Cal should do what Univ of Chicago did and just drop football. It would be a bold decision. I know there is big debt with the Memorial Stadium update, and we have a strong alumni base. But Cal should continue to be an intellectual leader. Its mission is the educated the next generation of leaders. And can we really accommodate these huge costs of subsidizing college sports since the Pac 12 crashed? I teach at Cal and i have athletes in my classes. Can they afford missing classes to fly east for events?
Hi- MW Alum from Boise
The MW would welcome Cal,Oregon St and Washington State. The reality of the situation is the MW with these addtions would be a fine West Coast Conference and will create some great travel opportunits and new rivlaries. I know you all see this as a downgrade but it will be fine.
Agreed. And I don't see it as a downgrade.
One thing we can hope is Cal pulls a Robby Benson in One on One and have spectacular years in both revenue sports, than tell everybody all the way with a red hot poker while making the Mountain West the top conference in the nation!
Or not.
We will be a mid level MWC football team with Wilcox.
Oregon and Washington to Big 10 is a done deal. We’re cooked.
Yup. Here's a sauce if anyone wants to see. https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-big-ten-adding-oregon-and-washington-leaving-pac-12-with-uncertain-future-163742534.html
I think Cal and Furd will get an offer, just at a reduced rate. The Big Ten presidents want us for their research consortium (WAY bigger pile of cash than the athletics pie) but Fox doesn't want to foot that bill. At least that's my read. So there's a path.
So does Cal still get the $10 mil from UCLA? Should be enough to be a top 4 or so team annually in the Mountain West in both revenue sports. (bowl games! March Madness invites!)
Some further thoughts ….
The two big dog conferences are now, for all intents and purposes, extensions of and beholden to their media owners. The Big 10 and SEC are “cover names” for what is in reality the Fox Sports conference and the ESPN conference. The Apple+ streaming conference just doesn’t rate. If you can’t get your product distributed on television and cable, you are not going to compete with the big boys and can expect your primary assets (high visibility, revenue producing flagship teams) to be strip mined by the top tier media conglomerates. The NCAA, who in theory should play some sort of oversight role to maintain stability and integrity, is impotent and irrelevant. Yes, some of this sounds a bit tin-foil-hatish but I think it is reality.
The fact that SEC and Big 10 big brass sought out or responded favorably to the new rules imposed by media (Fox/ESPN) has provided valuable cover for schools that would otherwise be in Cal’s position. I’m thinking of Northwestern and Vanderbilt – institutions where academics and research remain primary. These schools understandably found their place in major conferences when college sports operated in a different era with different rules. If either the SEC or Big 10 had bungled themselves into the predicament that the Pac 12 finds itself in, these schools would likely be facing the same doom loop that Cal is looking down the barrel at.
I am a proud Cal alum and do not like any of this at all. I fondly recall watching (as recently as the 1990’s and even early 2000’s) when Michigan or Ohio State would win their rivalry game and all the players rushed to the sideline to grab their red roses. Yes – the Rose Bowl is what we play for! Sadly, those days are long gone. Selling out to the highest bidder is the new game (think Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights shouting out to his corporate sponsors), college sports has been fully NASCAR-ized and monetized.
This was all foreseen by sages such as Dale Brown, former head basketball coach at LSU, as well as others. Seek out some of his interviews and videos from the late 1980’s and early 1990s – he saw and sounded the alarm around where all of this was headed, long before we had the BCS, CFP, expanded CFP and NCAA tourneys, transfer portal/NIL, and media-driven conference realignment.
I would love it if somewhere in the spreadsheets and deal making that is going on behind the scenes that # of nobel laureates, history and tradition, geographic affinity, and consideration for the “student athletes” were major factors but sadly they are not. The Arizona (and presumably Arizona St) case proves this out. Would a major conference rather have (a) two average/below average academic schools in smaller media markets but with one of them bringing along the potential for top-tier, national revenue generating ability (Arizona basketball), or (b) two elite, powerhouse academic institutions in larger media markets but with little/no near-term potential for their major sports programs to be nationally relevant? I think the answer to this question is playing out before our eyes right now.
As a Bay Area Michigan alum, I REALLY hope the B1G finds a way to get Cal and Stanford into the conference. And that's not just for selfish reasons in getting to attend Michigan games without having to travel across multiple times zones; it's because of how much we have in common with UC-Berkeley as a university. Hell, we even share the same colors.
Having said that, I wouldn't lose hope yet, Cal fans. Cal and Stanford would be great additions for their academic prestige alone. I know the B1G university presidents are salivating at the thought of adding academic powerhouses like Cal and Stanford alongside schools like Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Purdue. And the Big XII is not a good fit for Cal and Stanford for that very reason. If they're willing to accept a lower revenue share than UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, and the existing members (which would still be significantly more than what they're getting from the Pac-??, with greater potential for growth due to the wider TV exposure), then there's no reason why a deal can't be worked out. The B1G would likely also want Cal to present a concrete plan for how it plans to alleviate its heavy debt load without needing subsidies from the B1G.
Thanks man, much appreciated. I always knew Michigan fans were better than OSU fans.
Interesting though that Drake (UC prez) was prez at tOSU.
CBS report: "Oregon and Washington's flight to the big 10 lost momentum overnight due to unexpected travel costs" (breaking)
Now SI has story
https://www.si.com/college/2023/08/04/oregon-expected-to-remain-in-pac-12-after-momentum-with-big-10-slowed-overnight-per-reports
It benefits Oregon long-term to stick in the Pac for a bit to improve their B1G negotiating position and/or hope the conference rebuilds itself, but I just am finding it hard to believe this Apple deal is enough of a pacifier. In any case, maybe they can keep the conference together long enough for us to replace our AD and chancellor with a couple who actually have a pair, and might actually have a plans for these scenarios. Despite seeing the train from miles away, we continue to appear to be caught off guard.
Now it looks like the Pac-9 is staying together?! Wild.
Another notion, how about becoming an independent? That way we'll play really good football schools because we've become such a doormat we'll be each school's number one choice for their homecoming games?
How about switching from FBS to FCS and our new archenemy can become Cal Poly San Luis Obispo? That ought to pack Memorial stadium. Ticket scalpers will have a field day.
Cal - I am invincible and you have made me this way.
I am the third generation of my family to be Bears fans. Nearly half a century ago, I sat in traffic and had terrible parking only to sit in nosebleeds to watch us lose to San Jose State. I've furiously dialed on the phone to try to get classes on Tele*Bears only to get shut out. I've been hassled by the local colorful characters every time I visit Berkeley's well-textured roads and sidewalks.
Year after year, I hope for the best and am crushed by sub-par performance on the field, court, [not you, Cal watersports], and track. Over and over, you find ways to ensure that I am exposed to challenges that force me to adapt and endure.
And yet, I will not quit. I will not die. I have followed you across the country from Texas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Indiana and other places afar. As I watch my own body whither and lose its once okay-ish power, I will watch us atrophy as struggle to be competitive against once previously deemed lesser teams. But I will persevere. I will learn to love the rivalry of playing against new teams and traveling to new towns that I would have never been scheduled had Cal stayed in a Power 5 conference.
I have to admit - I didn't see this coming and it is diabolically clever attack. But, you have taught me how to smile and have a good time as I roll with your punches.
YOU CAN'T HURT ME, I'M A CAL BEAR FAN
If this goes down, do we burn our Cal caps and switch to Micky Mouse ears?
Thrown in sexual favors and they’ll ink the deal.
After a seeming cascade of bad news let's try to stay positive. The Bear will not quit, the Bear will not die.
Stadium For Rent - CHEAP!!!
What a difference a day makes! Bugger Jim Knowlton, bugger Carol Christ, bugger Mike Williams! Shame on all of you inept bast---s. Cal will now be joining Chico St, Davis, Fresno St, Sonoma St, Merced, San Bernardino, Irvine, and Santa Cruz in the Greater Central Valley AC. Oh well. at least athletic dept. travel costs will decline significantly. The academic senate must be rejoicing and the intramural sports dept. is staffing up. Cal will be signing a uniform deal with Jockey Shorts.
Can't believe this 60 years a cal fan and will continue to be.College sports used to be fun .No loyalty left.Ucla usc the pac 8 then pac 10 and finally pac 12 gave them the platform for 60 years to become house hold name brands.Greed ruining college sports.I guess that's all that matters. GO BEARS.