Boy, Cal's help defense really jumped to the fore on Saturday. I think Fox must have liked something he saw in ASU's offensive scheme. We played man-to-man all night & their guys had a nearly impossible time trying to penetrate & get to the rim. Our help was outstanding, everyone's head was on a swivel, the effort and energy were there, really a big step up in defensive intensity. Kudos to the players and to Fox for putting on a defensive clinic, it's a shame, the guys really deserved to win this one.
My impression is that our young guys with better coaching will continue to improve, the talent is there if not the skills. But I don't buy the injury thing because all teams have injuries. We should have been able to pull off a .500 record this season which still should be the floor for the program, not the ceiling.
Agreed, golden. Still a team that has the capability to shoot 60% from the field on multiple occasions would not seem as unskilled as some make it out to be. A more conducive offensive scheme, like the one Hurley ran yesterday, would have made a world of difference this season.
Shooting 60% 1 game out of 25 is not exactly multiple occasions. Sure, they have the capability to do it every night, but they don't. And an important characteristic of being a skilled shooter is a word I use often, reliable. If you can't do it night after night against varied opponents, your skills are lacking.
I did the numbers on their stats - in the 3 wins, they shot a combined 58% from the field...26-42 (62%) from 3...haven't really come close the other games.
Their recipe for winning is to shoot near 60%...no wonder they haven't won much.
We actually have some depth and skill at the wing position which bodes well for the future. However, we are thin at guard with no real assist leader that can run the offense up to capability, but overall the schemes are awful and that falls on the shoulders of Fox. Plus his sense of timing is horrible. Bowser gets on a hot streak and he immediately is pulled. Combine that with being tone deaf on when to call timeouts to break the opponent's momentum and that translates into like a 10 point negative in every game...
I love Joel Brown, but a great ball handler and distributor of the ball who is no scoring threat whatsoever isn't exactly at the top of most P-5 team's lists. When he has a spurt of confidence, and drives the lane, then he's the man. Happened 1 1/2 times this year.
With that FT shooting? Probably very few…still, he’s an experienced ball handler that’s played a lot of minutes...in a more up tempo system, he has the tools to be a solid facilitator. But that FT shooting is a challenge.
Great game. and I thought Cal was going to pull off the upset. Disturbing shot of the game was about 2/3 thru the 2nd half when the shot of the street outside had more people in it than the crowd shot in Haas. I get the W-L records caused that, but a lot of people didn't see a much more competitive game than they expected.
That's absolutely not what you're doing. You are actively seeking out disagreements, openly misinterpreting or just plain misunderstanding user comments, and then condescendingly telling others that they are incorrect, when it is YOU that is mistaken.
How can you expect him to turn it around when the team is as injured as you claim, bud? Can’t have it both ways. Still, dunno why you care so much about people and the different opinions they hold.
This was the same pace of offense he ran against Stanford, then inexplicably he went back to the slowdown game vs CU, UU, & UA. I don't think you can assume he's changed for good.
So, you just can’t help but insult the few Cal fans that actually still pay attention to the team…you just can not help yourself, can you, Bob? This is why you are attacked…this exact reason. I mean, you don’t even know what you’re watching because you don’t know the sport, despite having watched it for 60 years. The “armchair experts” actually DO know what they’re watching, yet you immediately discount them because Mark Fox was successful at Nevada 20 years ago. It’s rude.
And tho improved from when he first stepped on campus, Lars Thiemann is not a Pac 12 caliber player…the fact that Mark Fox basically runs his offense through him helps explain why this is one of the worst major college teams in the history of the sport.
Stop criticizing other posters on this board and it’ll be much smoother for you. JFC.
I was waving my hat MONTHS ago, actually…and still am. He absolutely should have been relieved of his duties after unconscionably brutal losses to UC Davis, UC San Diego, Southern, Texas State, and Eastern Washington…almost any self respecting administration would have terminated a guy who’s record was 3-22, and the fact that he is allowed to finish the season shows just how weak of a leader Jim Knowlton is, but no matter…Fox will be gone soon enough, and the few remaining fans of Cal basketball will rejoice!
I look forward to your first Wikipedia link for our new head coach, whoever that may be….it’ll be wild.
If Mark Fox wins out, that puts him at 9-21 heading to the tournament, which puts him 44-79 after 4 years where his best season was still sub 500 basketball at 14-18. We’ve seen the ceiling of Mark Fox, and now you’re seeing the floor.
Mark Fox has had PLENTY of chances. But his best players have all left and are putting up meaningful minutes and stats for teams vying for the Big Dance. I’m sure he’s a nice guy. But he isn’t cut out to be a head coach here any more.
Like, I’m all for sunshine pumping and wanting Cal to win every game, but the reality is that this season is very likely to be the worst Cal Basketball season by winning percentage EVER in 114 seasons.
Just off the top of my head, I remember that 93-94 team got maybe 10 combined games from Alfred Grisgsby and KJ Roberts. I think we had a seven-man by the time we got to the tourney, relying heavily on a couple of freshman--Randy Duck and Yogo Stewart. But we were still 5-seed. Fox can't win five games w/o two guys who would have barely been walk-ons on that 93-94 team.
This team's injuries don't rise to anything approaching unprecedented--at Cal or anywhere else.
In Cal’s three wins, they’ve shot a combined 87-150 (58%) from the field, 26-42 (62%) from 3, despite the missing their supposed best player, Devin Askew, in all three wins.
With or without the missing players, this team basically needs a fluke shooting night to win a basketball game…it’s unsustainable. 3-22, man, I’ve never seen anything like it.
Did you not ask if any Cal team had experienced as many key injuries? I just gave you an example off the top of my head. Regardless of the respective talent of the teams or even the results, that team lost two starters for nearly the entire season. Eventually those injuries caught up with them. So I answered your question.
It's his job to hire a S&C coach that helps prevent injuries. There is definitely a part of it that just amounts to luck, but a strong S&C program improves your luck. And this isn't just one year, he managed to make Wyking Jones look like a decent coach. And assuming we had zero injuries this year, we'd have what...10 wins instead of 9? Most of our losses are not close.
Dana Altman, Craig Smith, Kyle Smith, Tad Boyle, Andy Enfield, Mick Cronin, Bobby Hurley, and Tommy Lloyd if you prorate his record. So 7 of the 11 remaining head coaches fit that bill. Trends matter.
No Jerod Haase, Mike Hopkins, or Wayne Tinkle (though you could argue for him at 284-244)
You're presuming that these injured players are going to make a difference. Askew? He played most of the season and they still lost like what 12 in a row? There's that guy Celestine (sp?), I don't recall him playing? Is he any good? And there's a few others...bottom line, unless any of these "injured" players is the next Jaylen Brown, I doubt they're going to help us win. Fox is a lousy coach who can't recruit and his style is passe, Cal can do so much better.
If money is an issue - you know that Tim Miles at SJSU is 15-10 and is known as FEMA as he's rescued like 3 different programs. I bet they could easily get him for 1/2 of what they're paying Fox and he would do a way better job. I know, Good Luck! #FireFox!
Agreed, Askew isn't the answer. His numbers have been padded by the unlikely 25-ft 3's he was throwing up at the end of blowouts that somehow found the basket. If he were really that good, he'd throw them up in the first half, make half of them, and rebuke the ire from Fox for not running 29 seconds off of the shot clock. Hard to judge Clayton as I assume he must be playing hurt. The Clayton we saw in the Stanford game would be a force for other teams to reckon with and would make everyone else on the squad better.
There's enough data on Clayton in his 7 years of college basketball tho to conclude this is probably the player he is...a streaky, often-times inefficient scorer that unfortunately gets banged up. Definitely would've liked to see him healthy, but dude's missed 2 of every 3 shots he's taken for 3/4 of a decade.
Still, it would have been interesting to see him, Askew and Celestine on the court for consistent minutes. Wonder what things would have looked like.
The Oregon St game was the one where I really thought Fox had lost the team, at 20 pt blowout followed by losses of 29, 13, 15, & 23. This game was a very pleasant surprise, something must have changed in the locker room.
6 games left. Let him go. Start the search early and let the assistants also use this as an opportunity for their next job.
Boy, Cal's help defense really jumped to the fore on Saturday. I think Fox must have liked something he saw in ASU's offensive scheme. We played man-to-man all night & their guys had a nearly impossible time trying to penetrate & get to the rim. Our help was outstanding, everyone's head was on a swivel, the effort and energy were there, really a big step up in defensive intensity. Kudos to the players and to Fox for putting on a defensive clinic, it's a shame, the guys really deserved to win this one.
Kind of makes you wonder where it's been...
I liked the lineup Fox utilized late in the game and in OT.
Joel-DeJuan-Bowser-Alajiki-Newell…would like to see that more, at least in spurts.
My impression is that our young guys with better coaching will continue to improve, the talent is there if not the skills. But I don't buy the injury thing because all teams have injuries. We should have been able to pull off a .500 record this season which still should be the floor for the program, not the ceiling.
Agreed, golden. Still a team that has the capability to shoot 60% from the field on multiple occasions would not seem as unskilled as some make it out to be. A more conducive offensive scheme, like the one Hurley ran yesterday, would have made a world of difference this season.
Shooting 60% 1 game out of 25 is not exactly multiple occasions. Sure, they have the capability to do it every night, but they don't. And an important characteristic of being a skilled shooter is a word I use often, reliable. If you can't do it night after night against varied opponents, your skills are lacking.
I did the numbers on their stats - in the 3 wins, they shot a combined 58% from the field...26-42 (62%) from 3...haven't really come close the other games.
Their recipe for winning is to shoot near 60%...no wonder they haven't won much.
We actually have some depth and skill at the wing position which bodes well for the future. However, we are thin at guard with no real assist leader that can run the offense up to capability, but overall the schemes are awful and that falls on the shoulders of Fox. Plus his sense of timing is horrible. Bowser gets on a hot streak and he immediately is pulled. Combine that with being tone deaf on when to call timeouts to break the opponent's momentum and that translates into like a 10 point negative in every game...
I mean, we have a senior, multi-year starter at PG....other teams would kill for that.
I love Joel Brown, but a great ball handler and distributor of the ball who is no scoring threat whatsoever isn't exactly at the top of most P-5 team's lists. When he has a spurt of confidence, and drives the lane, then he's the man. Happened 1 1/2 times this year.
Yeah but how many other P5 teams would he start for? As a backup, sure.
With that FT shooting? Probably very few…still, he’s an experienced ball handler that’s played a lot of minutes...in a more up tempo system, he has the tools to be a solid facilitator. But that FT shooting is a challenge.
Great game. and I thought Cal was going to pull off the upset. Disturbing shot of the game was about 2/3 thru the 2nd half when the shot of the street outside had more people in it than the crowd shot in Haas. I get the W-L records caused that, but a lot of people didn't see a much more competitive game than they expected.
That's absolutely not what you're doing. You are actively seeking out disagreements, openly misinterpreting or just plain misunderstanding user comments, and then condescendingly telling others that they are incorrect, when it is YOU that is mistaken.
How can you expect him to turn it around when the team is as injured as you claim, bud? Can’t have it both ways. Still, dunno why you care so much about people and the different opinions they hold.
Here’s one more for you…
Mmmmmoooozzzziiillllaaa!!
#FireFox
;-)
This was the same pace of offense he ran against Stanford, then inexplicably he went back to the slowdown game vs CU, UU, & UA. I don't think you can assume he's changed for good.
"Probably one of the best games Cal has played this season. "
Time to extend?
(too soon?)
Well, Knowlton hands extensions to guys that don’t win, so it’s definitely in the cards.
So, you just can’t help but insult the few Cal fans that actually still pay attention to the team…you just can not help yourself, can you, Bob? This is why you are attacked…this exact reason. I mean, you don’t even know what you’re watching because you don’t know the sport, despite having watched it for 60 years. The “armchair experts” actually DO know what they’re watching, yet you immediately discount them because Mark Fox was successful at Nevada 20 years ago. It’s rude.
And tho improved from when he first stepped on campus, Lars Thiemann is not a Pac 12 caliber player…the fact that Mark Fox basically runs his offense through him helps explain why this is one of the worst major college teams in the history of the sport.
Stop criticizing other posters on this board and it’ll be much smoother for you. JFC.
I was waving my hat MONTHS ago, actually…and still am. He absolutely should have been relieved of his duties after unconscionably brutal losses to UC Davis, UC San Diego, Southern, Texas State, and Eastern Washington…almost any self respecting administration would have terminated a guy who’s record was 3-22, and the fact that he is allowed to finish the season shows just how weak of a leader Jim Knowlton is, but no matter…Fox will be gone soon enough, and the few remaining fans of Cal basketball will rejoice!
I look forward to your first Wikipedia link for our new head coach, whoever that may be….it’ll be wild.
True...3rd best - Colorado and Stanford were probably their best.
If Mark Fox wins out, that puts him at 9-21 heading to the tournament, which puts him 44-79 after 4 years where his best season was still sub 500 basketball at 14-18. We’ve seen the ceiling of Mark Fox, and now you’re seeing the floor.
Mark Fox has had PLENTY of chances. But his best players have all left and are putting up meaningful minutes and stats for teams vying for the Big Dance. I’m sure he’s a nice guy. But he isn’t cut out to be a head coach here any more.
Losing Andre Kelly really hurt.
He was involved in a nasty brawl v Davis the other day.
https://www.outkick.com/college-basketball-brawl-ucsb-santa-barbara-uc-davis-fight-andre-kelly-ty-johnson/
Like, I’m all for sunshine pumping and wanting Cal to win every game, but the reality is that this season is very likely to be the worst Cal Basketball season by winning percentage EVER in 114 seasons.
Just off the top of my head, I remember that 93-94 team got maybe 10 combined games from Alfred Grisgsby and KJ Roberts. I think we had a seven-man by the time we got to the tourney, relying heavily on a couple of freshman--Randy Duck and Yogo Stewart. But we were still 5-seed. Fox can't win five games w/o two guys who would have barely been walk-ons on that 93-94 team.
This team's injuries don't rise to anything approaching unprecedented--at Cal or anywhere else.
In Cal’s three wins, they’ve shot a combined 87-150 (58%) from the field, 26-42 (62%) from 3, despite the missing their supposed best player, Devin Askew, in all three wins.
With or without the missing players, this team basically needs a fluke shooting night to win a basketball game…it’s unsustainable. 3-22, man, I’ve never seen anything like it.
Did you not ask if any Cal team had experienced as many key injuries? I just gave you an example off the top of my head. Regardless of the respective talent of the teams or even the results, that team lost two starters for nearly the entire season. Eventually those injuries caught up with them. So I answered your question.
It's his job to hire a S&C coach that helps prevent injuries. There is definitely a part of it that just amounts to luck, but a strong S&C program improves your luck. And this isn't just one year, he managed to make Wyking Jones look like a decent coach. And assuming we had zero injuries this year, we'd have what...10 wins instead of 9? Most of our losses are not close.
Fox needs to go.
Overall. Not at Cal. That's like claiming Mike Montgomery's success at Furd for his tenure at Cal.
Dana Altman, Craig Smith, Kyle Smith, Tad Boyle, Andy Enfield, Mick Cronin, Bobby Hurley, and Tommy Lloyd if you prorate his record. So 7 of the 11 remaining head coaches fit that bill. Trends matter.
No Jerod Haase, Mike Hopkins, or Wayne Tinkle (though you could argue for him at 284-244)
You're presuming that these injured players are going to make a difference. Askew? He played most of the season and they still lost like what 12 in a row? There's that guy Celestine (sp?), I don't recall him playing? Is he any good? And there's a few others...bottom line, unless any of these "injured" players is the next Jaylen Brown, I doubt they're going to help us win. Fox is a lousy coach who can't recruit and his style is passe, Cal can do so much better.
If money is an issue - you know that Tim Miles at SJSU is 15-10 and is known as FEMA as he's rescued like 3 different programs. I bet they could easily get him for 1/2 of what they're paying Fox and he would do a way better job. I know, Good Luck! #FireFox!
Agreed, Askew isn't the answer. His numbers have been padded by the unlikely 25-ft 3's he was throwing up at the end of blowouts that somehow found the basket. If he were really that good, he'd throw them up in the first half, make half of them, and rebuke the ire from Fox for not running 29 seconds off of the shot clock. Hard to judge Clayton as I assume he must be playing hurt. The Clayton we saw in the Stanford game would be a force for other teams to reckon with and would make everyone else on the squad better.
There's enough data on Clayton in his 7 years of college basketball tho to conclude this is probably the player he is...a streaky, often-times inefficient scorer that unfortunately gets banged up. Definitely would've liked to see him healthy, but dude's missed 2 of every 3 shots he's taken for 3/4 of a decade.
Still, it would have been interesting to see him, Askew and Celestine on the court for consistent minutes. Wonder what things would have looked like.
Cal’s not even the most injured team in the P12…Oregon is, and they’re on the Bubble because Altman can coach.
It’s an excuse for Knowlton, tho savvy minds know the issue is coaching.
No, they're on the bubble because Altman can recruit. His non-injured players are better than Cal's.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/mark-fox-1.html
Nope. Hero ball.
They were winless with Devin Askew in the lineup. He does not elevate players around him.
The Oregon St game was the one where I really thought Fox had lost the team, at 20 pt blowout followed by losses of 29, 13, 15, & 23. This game was a very pleasant surprise, something must have changed in the locker room.