The only transfers they can take right now (without current roster guys leaving) are Grad Transfers using their Covid year. If I'm doing my math right.
Current Roster Departures: Shep (Covid Exemption), Makale (Covid Exemption), Grant (Covid Exemption).
There is currently 11 scholarship guys on the roster for next year (Andre not included), with a 2 man freshman class. That puts us at the 13 scholarship limit.
If Andre returns he would use his Covid Exemption year. So unless guys transfer out or there is a bonafide grad transfer out there, the roster won't see any massive upgrade in talent.
The worst part is that we'll only have a single true point guard on the roster, that was recruited by Wyking.
I would be kind of surprised if there were no defections, considering it seems to be the direction college sports are going in. Who it will be is anyone’s guess. Not sure what’s more disappointing- the fact that Joel is the only true point guard, or the fact that the single true point guard shoots 47% from the FT line, which makes him a net negative on the offensive end.
Incidentally, Georgia just fired Crean. While many lament the state of the program that Wyking left, let’s not forget Fox left Tom a nice turd sandwich of a roster in Athens.
The "easier" thing about the basketball program compare to football is that a new coach can turn the program around almost instantly IF he can bring in some top recruits. Of course, things can also turn quickly the other way, especially factoring in how the impact recruits are likely "one-and-done".
I hope the rumor of an extension will turn out to be untrue. I'll take another year of Mark Fox and hope that anything short of a NCAA bid (and not just a NIT bid) means that he's gone next spring. With what we know about who is coming next year and who is around, unless Fox pull some magic out of the transfer portal, he will really need to be a maximizer of talent for Cal to have a great season next year, not just slightly better than this year's still low bar.
The whining about Coach Fox is ridiculous. He inherited an absolute dumpster fire from Wyking, whose teams were undisciplined and regressed, players transferred etc. – and he had the advantage of some talent on the roster he inherited from Cuonzo.
When Fox arrived the cupboard was bare in terms of talent, work ethic and fundamentals, but I noticed steady improvement during his first season. That momentum hit a brick wall in the 2019-2020 season due to Covid – including the outbreak that severely reduced preseason practice, which originally took place on a tennis court where they couldn’t even use a ball – and bled into the 2020-2021 season. Despite this, I’ve seen Fox build a solid foundation, with his team mostly executing well on defense, especially given the talent gap. I’ve seen solid or better improvement in players like Kelly, Thiemann, Kuany and Celestine. That improvement was also delayed and stunted due to Covid.
Two other players (Thorpe and Bowser) didn’t see the court this season due to injury. So we didn’t even get to see their second-year jump. Thorpe’s injury was especially impactful because it meant that Fox couldn’t afford to play two bigs. Plus, Shepherd, Foreman and Alajiki were nursing injuries all season, and Brown is going to have knee surgery in the off-season. Some have complained that Alajiki should have gotten more minutes, but I saw him pull up lame several times, including once during pregame (which resulted in him spending the game on the bench with an icepack on his knee), and most recently during the Arizona trip.
Is Fox the guy to take us to the promised land? I don’t know, but given the hand he’s been dealt so far, to expect his teams to be performing like he’s the second coming of Pete Newell is ridiculous.
Wyking's tenure was utterly devastating to the Cal program, not just in a 1 to 2, but in a 5 to 6 year way. Players bail, and the inevitable losing seasons starting in 2019 are a turn-off to potential recruits, so the problem snowballs. No coach could have won with the talent on hand. Plus, Cal uniquely cannot afford such setbacks, it's hard enough to recruit and win here when times are good. Add in the fact that the Berkeley city covid protocols shut down Cal athletics to a much greater degree than any other PAC-12 program, and the picture continued to deteriorate.
Although most on this site agree Wyking left the cupboard bare, they then seem to forget that point when complaining about Fox's lack of success. Fox seems a very competent and well-regarded coach who's primary failing is that he's not enticing enough to bring in big name recruits. That's a problem, but who do you replace him with to solve it? Who would 1) Cal be willing to pay enough to and 2) be willing to take the job at the toughest school to win at in the PAC-12? Our recruiting pool for athletes is small and our recruiting pool for coaches is infinitesimal. Fox has my admiration for taking the job. He came knowing the cupboard was bare. Cal got him because he was off the radar with his year off (coaching team USA along with Jeff Van Gundy), after getting fired by Georgia, but having winning seasons 2/3 of time there. And because of this, the price was right. And it's fallacious to say he won with the previous guy's recruits - he had losing records 3 of his first 4 years, followed with win totals of 20, 21, 20, 19 & 18 after which he got fired. Who gets fired at Cal after 18 wins? Nobody.
Cal's success since the mid-90's includes a young coach who recruited well by paying players (Bozeman), an up & comer & leap of faith (Braun) worked out well by Cal standards (5 winning conference seasons out of 12), a once-in-a lifetime miracle hire (Montgomery) who made returning players (much) better and attracted good players and is simply a great coach, a fortuitous hire (Cuanzo) who recruited a couple of one-and-dones but could not find any more, saw the writing on the wall, was not invested, & bolted for instant success (money-wise and talent-wise, hiring a top-5 recruit's father as an assistant), and then came the dark times, largely brought on by Cal's horrendous financial situation at the time.
Considering all of this, and where we are now, I think wild success is Cal at .500 in the PAC-12 in the 23-24 season. Fox is a good coach. I've seen improvement every year from every player who's seen minutes. btw - I don't get those who are complaining about Alajiki 's short minutes. He's as hot & cold as it gets, mostly cold, clanging shots off the glass that don't draw iron. Good defense & energy, but he needs to earn his playing time with better choices on the offensive side. And related, anyone who thinks Cal is playing as poorly as back in the Wyking years, is flat out crazy. At least now we are winning the games we're supposed to, that wasn't happening back then. A coach's mandate is mostly to win now, so he plays the players who give the best chance to win. Can't sit 'em & play only for the future (and Wilcox is worse then Fox in this regard).
Fox is a good man and a good coach in a very tough situation not of his own making. I'd like to see him get 3 more (hopefully completely normal) years before judgement day.
Again, lots to unpack, OoT, and you are entitled to your opinion. Your post was also the kick in the ass I needed to send Knowlton an email on the matter. Respectfully, though, you are flat out wrong on Sam Alajiki, as statistically he is one of the best shooters on the team. Yes, he had a few misfires v. Stanford when he rushed a couple 3's as the defender closed out on him, and he threw up a bad one v. Wazzu Wednesday, though the entire team could not hit water from the boat, so there's that. Earn his playing time? That's a farce.
His 46% FG is 3rd behind post players Andre Kelly and Lars Thiemann, and his 50% 3P leads the team. With the energy and good defense you acknowledge he provides, he should be getting MORE minutes and shots, not less, as he is a key piece of the future, and giving 30+ mpg to a limited, departing 5th-year senior that shoots 38% from the field and struggles to defend serves no good purpose on a rebuilding team.
Fair enough, and he has undoubtedly had some whiffs, tho every guy on the team not named Andre Kelly has struggled to score the ball, if we’re being honest.
If the squad was winning, I could understand riding upperclassmen like Grant & Jordan for 33-35 mpg. But they’re not, and Grant has struggled mightily since P12 play began. Just wish the FR had gotten more minutes.
Mar 10, 2022·edited Mar 10, 2022Liked by BentPawn, TD_24
Whoosh…lots to unpack there, and it’s been a minute since we’ve heard from Rose Bowl Oski. Welcome to the conversation, pal.
First off, no one is expecting him to be Pete Newell, but his offense and schemes are borderline unwatchable. He is a below average recruiter, and doesn’t do much to coach these guys up once they are on campus. While there’s been nominal improvement from Lars & Kuany, they are nonetheless at-best fringe P12 caliber players…same with Joel, the only true PG on the roster, which is inexcusable. Klonaras is just taking up someone’s scholarship. Bowser & Thorpe, while hurt this year, we’re back end of the rotation guys last year, and nothing in Fox’s history, nor what we saw of them, says they were primed to make any sort of leap.
You want to check out a dumpster fire? Look at the team he left Crean in Athens. And this team is actually not markedly better than Wyking Jones’ squads.
Alajiki’s minutes are not curtailed because of injury - Fox doesn’t play FR big minutes…he never has, especially when he’s giving an all-around limited Grant Anticevich 30 mpg at the 4 spot. Brown’s injury is recent. Foreman has had the foot since day one.
Conor LeTourneau leaked that Knowlton was thinking of extending Fox, which is laughable. I do think Knowlton gives him another year, which given the disastrous state the program was in, is probably fair. But there really hasn’t been much progress in the 3 years, and considering Mark Fox has been doing pretty much this same thing for about 10 of the 15-some odd years as a HC, why should we expect anything different with more time? Plus, Cal really wasn’t THAT badly affected by the pandemic, at least compared to any other school, so the COVID excuse is kind of a stretch. Other teams handled similar issues just fine.
It was an uninspiring hire at the time, and remains one three seasons later. Kyle Smith has done more in Pullman…Pullman!! Questioning the future under Fox is anything but ridiculous.
I don't think anyone here disagrees that Fox hasn't been presented unique challenges, nor do I think anyone expected him to be the next Pete Newell. It's actually the opposite to some of us: What we have seen is exactly what we expected. I don't dislike Fox as a man or mentor and am also very willing to give him credit where he deserves. The team plays hard and there is less of the behind-the-scenes drama and acted-out insecurity that plagued Wyking and his tenure. But those are also low bars. And at this point, you are what the track record shows. If student athletes don't see a spark, they aren't going to join you on your quest, however hardworking and well meaning you may be. Is it more that you think he deserves more time or that you think this actually has a chance to pay off? Or are you comfortable fielding a team that will not play in meaningful games, so long as it's done so with integrity? My personal feeling is that deserving really has nothing to do with it, and I'd like to see play in meaningful games again in that not too distant future. Big time college coaches like Fox are paid handsomely partly because it is a volatile profession, and wins and losses help pay your salary and help fuel other programs. At the end of the day, some of us feel that this is simply a slow road to nowhere, so why are we sticking with a futile plan when you can start a quicker path to rebuilding something that may be more engaging to student athletes, students, alumni and fans?
While there are many legitimate concerns about Fox, this statement "and doesn’t do much to coach these guys up once they are on campus." is not one of them. Fox has gotten as much from these players as I believe any other non-Montgomery/Newell coach could. We all watch a lot of ball, and I don't see another coach in the Pac12 who does anything by design to make his players better that is not easily explained by those players being more talented. Cal gets plenty of open shots, and misses them. Our defense is very strong, which is coaching. The players play HARD, which is coaching. We have to give credit where credit is due, so we can express complaints where they are warranted.
Fox has stated the reason he plays THIS style with this crew is that he felt it was the one that gave them the best chance to win. Which is kinda BS, because he played a similar style at UGA, and has chances to recruit different players. Pretty clear this is the style he wants to play, and it’s absolutely disgusting. His offenses seem to encourage incongruity…there is so little flow to his scheme. THAT’S coaching.
And, OK, so the argument then is the players are just not very good…which is as big an indictment of Fox as anything, considering it’s been his team for 3 years.
And that the players play hard & graduate are pretty much the only things he brings to the table, no?
Exactly! That's where we agree. No doubt Fox has failed to bring in Pac12 talent at all positions. That's the essential program indictment. You can look at any team in the league and struggle to see one where one our starters would start. Kelly, yes, for some. Shepherd, yes for some. Who else? No one I see. So getting what he gets from what he has is an accomplishment. The scheme is slow and ponderous, but that is likely the best approach when you know you don't have the horses to compete. When the story is written on Fox, it will be said that he inherited a dumpster fire, turned the program into one with players who care and fought hard, but failed to get the talent we needed to win consistently.
Well, that’s fair. It’s definitely easier to win with more talented players.
Tho we’ll likely never know, I’m fairly confident a more dynamic offensive mind could coax more out of this team than Fox has. Last night was hard to watch, and Lars air balling a jump hook from 4-feet was indicative of the past month.
He does seem somewhat rigid and inflexible in his schemes. There’s definitely no innovation…he’s just old school, with all the baggage that comes with it. There are too many good young coaches out there to not take a look at one, IMHO.
Fox said at the beginning of the year that the team will need more balanced scoring with the loss of Matt Bradley. Shep shot close to 100 more times than the next guy...
COVID was a valid excuse in 2020-21, as Cal was limited in practice time (and quality of facilities). COVID is not a valid excuse for this season.
Looking back, Fox managed the roster decently enough. Good stuff: Limiting Hyder's minutes about halfway through the season. Giving Celestine as much time as he did. Trying different in-game lineups, and (sometimes) subbing or not subbing based on the game flow. Bad stuff: Not giving the freshman more minutes. Grant should've been 25-28 minutes a game.
His in-game coaching and style is still questionable to me. We've had some decent inbound play designs, and the Oregon win with the high screens were nicely designed. But he never recognized 2-for-1 scenarios, or when some players were just locked into a bad matchup. There seems to be a lack of flow and ball movement, with forced Shep and Kelly to play heroball too often.
I'm just not excited right now. At least he's likable, and his team brings the energy every night. He's not punchable like Hurley or Haase. I agree he probably gets one more year. But an extension is ludicrous.
That's a very fair take, BP...and I did forget about the facilities issue with COVID. Even with the inconvenience, though, I am not buying it as a momentum killer, considering they didn't have much to begin with...they were in a logjam at 7-11 in '19, though statistically they were rather similar to the past 2 seasons - the Conference was just in worse shape than it is now, top heavy as it may be.
My main concern with Fox is his track record, his body of work, and the relatively defined ceiling on his teams. Again, I don't think he's going anywhere after this season...but you can not extend him. He's not even in the final year of his deal, when he would be a lame duck.
I think the covid excuse was defn valid for last season, and he keeps stating that it hurt the development of the younger guys. sure, i can agree with that. but that doesnt negate a somewhat normal offseason this past summer, along with his reluctance to play the younger guys to work on the rebuild but constantly play one year players in shep, grant, makale in 35mpg. There's a disconnect between what he says about development and experience and what he puts out on the court. That's not even considering the style of game he wants to play.
Bruce Weber just resigned in Manhattan, KS...keep your eye on him, as he is guaranteed to be a candidate of Knowlton's search firm after he jettisons Fox in March of '23. ;-)
Haven't followed him since his Illini days when I was living in Chicago, but I thought he was good (although he certainly benefitted from what Self left before taking the KU job). That said, so much of a coaches possibilities for success is built on perception: are you hot or are you not. Weber is definitely trending down, is pretty long in the tooth and has no west coast ties. I think he's an improvement over Fox, but their trajectories are similar.
I don't really think he's a realistic option - it was more tongue in cheek, because the similarities are striking. Both guys' teams play hard, the players graduate, and the program is clean...but they don't win enough, and the games are boring to watch.
Unfortunately, given his track record, it's a move I could totally see Knowlton making. Then again, Weber has accomplished things in his career Fox can only dream of, including as recently as 2019. 5 tourney bids in 10 years at K-State, an Elite-8 appearance. Zoiks.
I anticipated a dumpster fire season with the loss of Bradley. They were, at rare times, much better than I expected and played hard at all times. I'm still not accepting that this is anything like a ceiling for our program when we not long ago had Pac12 champions. I don't follow recruiting much, until it's done, but if the class coming in is not top half of conference, there is absolutely no reason to expect anything better next year. Worse, even, likely. Are there no big donors in Knowlton's ears saying things?
It was a dumpster fire when we had Bradley. This class is essentially sealed. There's zero chance for a top-5 anything. We are not on any prospects-of-notes' radars. At this point, you're just trying to keep your class, hope to strike gold on the transfer market and looking towards the 23-24 class.
I did just write him. Said I am a Cal basketball junkie who moved back to the Bay Area last year, and his keep/fire/extend decision will heavily influence my decision on buying season tickets going forward. We'll see if he replies.
And he responded. I'm sure it was a canned letter, but the greeting was personalized and it was within 90 minutes of me sending it. Kinda impressed on that level of responsiveness the first day after the conclusion of the season.
He has time to respond because he actually doesn't do the work and research to hire coaches. He hires a firm to do that for him. He likely does the same thing for his other responsibilities ~ delegates it out. Which leaves him time to respond to emails while sitting on the can!!
Cuonzo just got fired.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/cuonzo-martin-out-at-missouri-after-five-seasons-following-12-21-season-for-tigers/
The only transfers they can take right now (without current roster guys leaving) are Grad Transfers using their Covid year. If I'm doing my math right.
Current Roster Departures: Shep (Covid Exemption), Makale (Covid Exemption), Grant (Covid Exemption).
There is currently 11 scholarship guys on the roster for next year (Andre not included), with a 2 man freshman class. That puts us at the 13 scholarship limit.
If Andre returns he would use his Covid Exemption year. So unless guys transfer out or there is a bonafide grad transfer out there, the roster won't see any massive upgrade in talent.
The worst part is that we'll only have a single true point guard on the roster, that was recruited by Wyking.
I would be kind of surprised if there were no defections, considering it seems to be the direction college sports are going in. Who it will be is anyone’s guess. Not sure what’s more disappointing- the fact that Joel is the only true point guard, or the fact that the single true point guard shoots 47% from the FT line, which makes him a net negative on the offensive end.
Incidentally, Georgia just fired Crean. While many lament the state of the program that Wyking left, let’s not forget Fox left Tom a nice turd sandwich of a roster in Athens.
but crean still pulled some solid recruiting classes. thats the difference.
True.
The "easier" thing about the basketball program compare to football is that a new coach can turn the program around almost instantly IF he can bring in some top recruits. Of course, things can also turn quickly the other way, especially factoring in how the impact recruits are likely "one-and-done".
I hope the rumor of an extension will turn out to be untrue. I'll take another year of Mark Fox and hope that anything short of a NCAA bid (and not just a NIT bid) means that he's gone next spring. With what we know about who is coming next year and who is around, unless Fox pull some magic out of the transfer portal, he will really need to be a maximizer of talent for Cal to have a great season next year, not just slightly better than this year's still low bar.
This is totally true...a good HC and a few players can really turn around a basketball program relatively quickly.
They currently do not have any more scholarships available for next year, though some guys figure to inevitably enter the portal.
The whining about Coach Fox is ridiculous. He inherited an absolute dumpster fire from Wyking, whose teams were undisciplined and regressed, players transferred etc. – and he had the advantage of some talent on the roster he inherited from Cuonzo.
When Fox arrived the cupboard was bare in terms of talent, work ethic and fundamentals, but I noticed steady improvement during his first season. That momentum hit a brick wall in the 2019-2020 season due to Covid – including the outbreak that severely reduced preseason practice, which originally took place on a tennis court where they couldn’t even use a ball – and bled into the 2020-2021 season. Despite this, I’ve seen Fox build a solid foundation, with his team mostly executing well on defense, especially given the talent gap. I’ve seen solid or better improvement in players like Kelly, Thiemann, Kuany and Celestine. That improvement was also delayed and stunted due to Covid.
Two other players (Thorpe and Bowser) didn’t see the court this season due to injury. So we didn’t even get to see their second-year jump. Thorpe’s injury was especially impactful because it meant that Fox couldn’t afford to play two bigs. Plus, Shepherd, Foreman and Alajiki were nursing injuries all season, and Brown is going to have knee surgery in the off-season. Some have complained that Alajiki should have gotten more minutes, but I saw him pull up lame several times, including once during pregame (which resulted in him spending the game on the bench with an icepack on his knee), and most recently during the Arizona trip.
Is Fox the guy to take us to the promised land? I don’t know, but given the hand he’s been dealt so far, to expect his teams to be performing like he’s the second coming of Pete Newell is ridiculous.
Thank you, Rose Bowl Oski. This take is right on.
Wyking's tenure was utterly devastating to the Cal program, not just in a 1 to 2, but in a 5 to 6 year way. Players bail, and the inevitable losing seasons starting in 2019 are a turn-off to potential recruits, so the problem snowballs. No coach could have won with the talent on hand. Plus, Cal uniquely cannot afford such setbacks, it's hard enough to recruit and win here when times are good. Add in the fact that the Berkeley city covid protocols shut down Cal athletics to a much greater degree than any other PAC-12 program, and the picture continued to deteriorate.
Although most on this site agree Wyking left the cupboard bare, they then seem to forget that point when complaining about Fox's lack of success. Fox seems a very competent and well-regarded coach who's primary failing is that he's not enticing enough to bring in big name recruits. That's a problem, but who do you replace him with to solve it? Who would 1) Cal be willing to pay enough to and 2) be willing to take the job at the toughest school to win at in the PAC-12? Our recruiting pool for athletes is small and our recruiting pool for coaches is infinitesimal. Fox has my admiration for taking the job. He came knowing the cupboard was bare. Cal got him because he was off the radar with his year off (coaching team USA along with Jeff Van Gundy), after getting fired by Georgia, but having winning seasons 2/3 of time there. And because of this, the price was right. And it's fallacious to say he won with the previous guy's recruits - he had losing records 3 of his first 4 years, followed with win totals of 20, 21, 20, 19 & 18 after which he got fired. Who gets fired at Cal after 18 wins? Nobody.
Cal's success since the mid-90's includes a young coach who recruited well by paying players (Bozeman), an up & comer & leap of faith (Braun) worked out well by Cal standards (5 winning conference seasons out of 12), a once-in-a lifetime miracle hire (Montgomery) who made returning players (much) better and attracted good players and is simply a great coach, a fortuitous hire (Cuanzo) who recruited a couple of one-and-dones but could not find any more, saw the writing on the wall, was not invested, & bolted for instant success (money-wise and talent-wise, hiring a top-5 recruit's father as an assistant), and then came the dark times, largely brought on by Cal's horrendous financial situation at the time.
Considering all of this, and where we are now, I think wild success is Cal at .500 in the PAC-12 in the 23-24 season. Fox is a good coach. I've seen improvement every year from every player who's seen minutes. btw - I don't get those who are complaining about Alajiki 's short minutes. He's as hot & cold as it gets, mostly cold, clanging shots off the glass that don't draw iron. Good defense & energy, but he needs to earn his playing time with better choices on the offensive side. And related, anyone who thinks Cal is playing as poorly as back in the Wyking years, is flat out crazy. At least now we are winning the games we're supposed to, that wasn't happening back then. A coach's mandate is mostly to win now, so he plays the players who give the best chance to win. Can't sit 'em & play only for the future (and Wilcox is worse then Fox in this regard).
Fox is a good man and a good coach in a very tough situation not of his own making. I'd like to see him get 3 more (hopefully completely normal) years before judgement day.
Again, lots to unpack, OoT, and you are entitled to your opinion. Your post was also the kick in the ass I needed to send Knowlton an email on the matter. Respectfully, though, you are flat out wrong on Sam Alajiki, as statistically he is one of the best shooters on the team. Yes, he had a few misfires v. Stanford when he rushed a couple 3's as the defender closed out on him, and he threw up a bad one v. Wazzu Wednesday, though the entire team could not hit water from the boat, so there's that. Earn his playing time? That's a farce.
His 46% FG is 3rd behind post players Andre Kelly and Lars Thiemann, and his 50% 3P leads the team. With the energy and good defense you acknowledge he provides, he should be getting MORE minutes and shots, not less, as he is a key piece of the future, and giving 30+ mpg to a limited, departing 5th-year senior that shoots 38% from the field and struggles to defend serves no good purpose on a rebuilding team.
My Alajiki critique was admittedly anecdotal - whenever I've been at Haas or tuning in this season, it hasn't been his night. But stats are stats.
Fair enough, and he has undoubtedly had some whiffs, tho every guy on the team not named Andre Kelly has struggled to score the ball, if we’re being honest.
If the squad was winning, I could understand riding upperclassmen like Grant & Jordan for 33-35 mpg. But they’re not, and Grant has struggled mightily since P12 play began. Just wish the FR had gotten more minutes.
Whoosh…lots to unpack there, and it’s been a minute since we’ve heard from Rose Bowl Oski. Welcome to the conversation, pal.
First off, no one is expecting him to be Pete Newell, but his offense and schemes are borderline unwatchable. He is a below average recruiter, and doesn’t do much to coach these guys up once they are on campus. While there’s been nominal improvement from Lars & Kuany, they are nonetheless at-best fringe P12 caliber players…same with Joel, the only true PG on the roster, which is inexcusable. Klonaras is just taking up someone’s scholarship. Bowser & Thorpe, while hurt this year, we’re back end of the rotation guys last year, and nothing in Fox’s history, nor what we saw of them, says they were primed to make any sort of leap.
You want to check out a dumpster fire? Look at the team he left Crean in Athens. And this team is actually not markedly better than Wyking Jones’ squads.
Alajiki’s minutes are not curtailed because of injury - Fox doesn’t play FR big minutes…he never has, especially when he’s giving an all-around limited Grant Anticevich 30 mpg at the 4 spot. Brown’s injury is recent. Foreman has had the foot since day one.
Conor LeTourneau leaked that Knowlton was thinking of extending Fox, which is laughable. I do think Knowlton gives him another year, which given the disastrous state the program was in, is probably fair. But there really hasn’t been much progress in the 3 years, and considering Mark Fox has been doing pretty much this same thing for about 10 of the 15-some odd years as a HC, why should we expect anything different with more time? Plus, Cal really wasn’t THAT badly affected by the pandemic, at least compared to any other school, so the COVID excuse is kind of a stretch. Other teams handled similar issues just fine.
It was an uninspiring hire at the time, and remains one three seasons later. Kyle Smith has done more in Pullman…Pullman!! Questioning the future under Fox is anything but ridiculous.
I don't think anyone here disagrees that Fox hasn't been presented unique challenges, nor do I think anyone expected him to be the next Pete Newell. It's actually the opposite to some of us: What we have seen is exactly what we expected. I don't dislike Fox as a man or mentor and am also very willing to give him credit where he deserves. The team plays hard and there is less of the behind-the-scenes drama and acted-out insecurity that plagued Wyking and his tenure. But those are also low bars. And at this point, you are what the track record shows. If student athletes don't see a spark, they aren't going to join you on your quest, however hardworking and well meaning you may be. Is it more that you think he deserves more time or that you think this actually has a chance to pay off? Or are you comfortable fielding a team that will not play in meaningful games, so long as it's done so with integrity? My personal feeling is that deserving really has nothing to do with it, and I'd like to see play in meaningful games again in that not too distant future. Big time college coaches like Fox are paid handsomely partly because it is a volatile profession, and wins and losses help pay your salary and help fuel other programs. At the end of the day, some of us feel that this is simply a slow road to nowhere, so why are we sticking with a futile plan when you can start a quicker path to rebuilding something that may be more engaging to student athletes, students, alumni and fans?
Well said
Agreed, best take yet.
I want meaningful games.
While there are many legitimate concerns about Fox, this statement "and doesn’t do much to coach these guys up once they are on campus." is not one of them. Fox has gotten as much from these players as I believe any other non-Montgomery/Newell coach could. We all watch a lot of ball, and I don't see another coach in the Pac12 who does anything by design to make his players better that is not easily explained by those players being more talented. Cal gets plenty of open shots, and misses them. Our defense is very strong, which is coaching. The players play HARD, which is coaching. We have to give credit where credit is due, so we can express complaints where they are warranted.
Fox has stated the reason he plays THIS style with this crew is that he felt it was the one that gave them the best chance to win. Which is kinda BS, because he played a similar style at UGA, and has chances to recruit different players. Pretty clear this is the style he wants to play, and it’s absolutely disgusting. His offenses seem to encourage incongruity…there is so little flow to his scheme. THAT’S coaching.
And, OK, so the argument then is the players are just not very good…which is as big an indictment of Fox as anything, considering it’s been his team for 3 years.
And that the players play hard & graduate are pretty much the only things he brings to the table, no?
Exactly! That's where we agree. No doubt Fox has failed to bring in Pac12 talent at all positions. That's the essential program indictment. You can look at any team in the league and struggle to see one where one our starters would start. Kelly, yes, for some. Shepherd, yes for some. Who else? No one I see. So getting what he gets from what he has is an accomplishment. The scheme is slow and ponderous, but that is likely the best approach when you know you don't have the horses to compete. When the story is written on Fox, it will be said that he inherited a dumpster fire, turned the program into one with players who care and fought hard, but failed to get the talent we needed to win consistently.
Well, that’s fair. It’s definitely easier to win with more talented players.
Tho we’ll likely never know, I’m fairly confident a more dynamic offensive mind could coax more out of this team than Fox has. Last night was hard to watch, and Lars air balling a jump hook from 4-feet was indicative of the past month.
He does seem somewhat rigid and inflexible in his schemes. There’s definitely no innovation…he’s just old school, with all the baggage that comes with it. There are too many good young coaches out there to not take a look at one, IMHO.
Fox said at the beginning of the year that the team will need more balanced scoring with the loss of Matt Bradley. Shep shot close to 100 more times than the next guy...
COVID was a valid excuse in 2020-21, as Cal was limited in practice time (and quality of facilities). COVID is not a valid excuse for this season.
Looking back, Fox managed the roster decently enough. Good stuff: Limiting Hyder's minutes about halfway through the season. Giving Celestine as much time as he did. Trying different in-game lineups, and (sometimes) subbing or not subbing based on the game flow. Bad stuff: Not giving the freshman more minutes. Grant should've been 25-28 minutes a game.
His in-game coaching and style is still questionable to me. We've had some decent inbound play designs, and the Oregon win with the high screens were nicely designed. But he never recognized 2-for-1 scenarios, or when some players were just locked into a bad matchup. There seems to be a lack of flow and ball movement, with forced Shep and Kelly to play heroball too often.
I'm just not excited right now. At least he's likable, and his team brings the energy every night. He's not punchable like Hurley or Haase. I agree he probably gets one more year. But an extension is ludicrous.
That's a very fair take, BP...and I did forget about the facilities issue with COVID. Even with the inconvenience, though, I am not buying it as a momentum killer, considering they didn't have much to begin with...they were in a logjam at 7-11 in '19, though statistically they were rather similar to the past 2 seasons - the Conference was just in worse shape than it is now, top heavy as it may be.
My main concern with Fox is his track record, his body of work, and the relatively defined ceiling on his teams. Again, I don't think he's going anywhere after this season...but you can not extend him. He's not even in the final year of his deal, when he would be a lame duck.
I think the covid excuse was defn valid for last season, and he keeps stating that it hurt the development of the younger guys. sure, i can agree with that. but that doesnt negate a somewhat normal offseason this past summer, along with his reluctance to play the younger guys to work on the rebuild but constantly play one year players in shep, grant, makale in 35mpg. There's a disconnect between what he says about development and experience and what he puts out on the court. That's not even considering the style of game he wants to play.
Thanks Nick.
Bruce Weber just resigned in Manhattan, KS...keep your eye on him, as he is guaranteed to be a candidate of Knowlton's search firm after he jettisons Fox in March of '23. ;-)
#thecyclecontinues
Haven't followed him since his Illini days when I was living in Chicago, but I thought he was good (although he certainly benefitted from what Self left before taking the KU job). That said, so much of a coaches possibilities for success is built on perception: are you hot or are you not. Weber is definitely trending down, is pretty long in the tooth and has no west coast ties. I think he's an improvement over Fox, but their trajectories are similar.
I don't really think he's a realistic option - it was more tongue in cheek, because the similarities are striking. Both guys' teams play hard, the players graduate, and the program is clean...but they don't win enough, and the games are boring to watch.
Unfortunately, given his track record, it's a move I could totally see Knowlton making. Then again, Weber has accomplished things in his career Fox can only dream of, including as recently as 2019. 5 tourney bids in 10 years at K-State, an Elite-8 appearance. Zoiks.
I anticipated a dumpster fire season with the loss of Bradley. They were, at rare times, much better than I expected and played hard at all times. I'm still not accepting that this is anything like a ceiling for our program when we not long ago had Pac12 champions. I don't follow recruiting much, until it's done, but if the class coming in is not top half of conference, there is absolutely no reason to expect anything better next year. Worse, even, likely. Are there no big donors in Knowlton's ears saying things?
It was a dumpster fire when we had Bradley. This class is essentially sealed. There's zero chance for a top-5 anything. We are not on any prospects-of-notes' radars. At this point, you're just trying to keep your class, hope to strike gold on the transfer market and looking towards the 23-24 class.
Thanks. I agree fully. As a business leader, I have no interest in complaints without solutions.
I did just write him. Said I am a Cal basketball junkie who moved back to the Bay Area last year, and his keep/fire/extend decision will heavily influence my decision on buying season tickets going forward. We'll see if he replies.
And he responded. I'm sure it was a canned letter, but the greeting was personalized and it was within 90 minutes of me sending it. Kinda impressed on that level of responsiveness the first day after the conclusion of the season.
He has time to respond because he actually doesn't do the work and research to hire coaches. He hires a firm to do that for him. He likely does the same thing for his other responsibilities ~ delegates it out. Which leaves him time to respond to emails while sitting on the can!!
I did not see this coming!
Haha