229 Comments

DBD AV Club

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Been watching Rebels (Star Wars) after finishing Clone Wars. It's fine, and doesn't have any stinker episodes like CW had.

Also, any trekkie fans out there will enjoy Lower Decks - half the fun is skewering Star Trek mythos - surprisingly violent, for Trek.

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i like lower decks. but i have not seen them all yet

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I was watching Brett Goldstein from Ted Lasso being interviewed on Last Night with Seth Meyers and he mentioned he made a covid series called Lone Island. It's a Love Island type show but due to Covid he's the only one that is there. I watched the first episode and it looks like it could be good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP793bQSHPY&ab_channel=BrettGoldstein

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W4C Happy Hour next Wednesday at Wondrous Brewing at 5 https://www.instagram.com/wondrousbrewing/?hl=en

Rob's friend Sammy will be the food purveyor: https://www.instagram.com/sammysf00d/?hl=en

Let's hang out, have some beers, eat some hodduk, and be merry!

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I'll be out of town. Have a great time.

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I will also be out of town.

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SCOTUS changed oral arguments in part because female justices were interrupted, Sotomayor says

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/13/politics/sotomayor-oral-arguments/index.html

Justice Sonia Sotomayor told an audience Wednesday that recent changes in the format of oral arguments were instituted in part after studies emerged showing that female justices on the court were interrupted more by male justices and advocates.

Sotomayor said the studies, including one by researchers Tonja Jacoby and Dylan Schweers in 2017, have had an "enormous impact" and led to Chief Justice John Roberts being "much more sensitive" to ensuring that people were not interrupted or at least that he would play referee if needed.

She also said that it is a dynamic that exists not only on the court but in society as well.

"Most of the time women say things and they are not heard in the same way as men who might say the identical thing," she said.

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That's fasincating! And not entirely surprising.

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Pretty well known. My fiancee gripes it about all the time. She's a former CFO.

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Ooooh fiancee! Mazel!

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Thank you! How did you know she's Jewish? :)

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Heh, I didn't, but yay!

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or fascinating, whatever

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was the site down last night? or have I been banned?

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you didn't bring enough tacos for everybody

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gud point, I need to learn to share my toys

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I made a few calls...initiated a "review" of your account ;-) ;-) Ha!

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Please pay $90 for W4C premium level access to restore your account

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$90??? my card was charged $270!!

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Oh...look at Mr Moneybags and his lifetime membership

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It might have been down because I saw an admin post “test” in an article.

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I had some issues as well.

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You've got a lot of issues

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Thanks pal...working thru them. Being able to count on the support of cranky old, get-off-my-lawn Cal fans like yourself definitely helps me through these dark times.

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You are always welcome on my lawn - anytime

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[rimshot]

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I think there was an issue with the W4C DNS entry. The servers couldn't look up the IP address for W4C.

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Yeah was down for me too

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Pro

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ESPN's Seth Wickersham just published a book that alleges that Brady, Belichek, and Bob Kraft were cheaters. You all know the video taping scandal and deflategate. He alleges bribes, stealing playbooks, sabotage of visitor's equipment, illegal formations... and stopped just short of accusing Brady of being a drug cheat.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tom-brady-and-the-patriots-cheating-ways-laid-bare

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Plus they forgot to mention that he fumbled.

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StL Cardinals figure their manager Mike Shildt. Interesting move given their winning streak to make it into the WC. Though there were some interesting decisions in the WC game. But I'm still surprised they fired him.

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Why? Except for the 17-game win streak, St. Louis was at best a .500 team.

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Interesting. I guess when you don't follow a team you don't notice things like this.

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England Will Pucovski is cricket's answer to Scott Sterling. He's 23 years old and has had 10 concussions.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/58912091

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFfhLzebep4

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I love the Scott Sterling volleyball one as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY2nVQNlUB8&t=82s&ab_channel=StudioC

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Happy Birthday, Jared Goff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Goff

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This is precious. BTW, Hendrix Lapierre wasn't even conceived when Alex Ovechkin started playing pro hockey.

https://twitter.com/capitals/status/1448458916405391363

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Re: Ovechkin. I remember seeing him shortly after he signed his 13 year, $124 million dollar contract. I was running on a bike trail and he was out running the opposite direction with someone riding along side on a bike. He was wearing some raggedy ass old gray cotton sweats and I was going faster than he was even though I'd already done a bunch of miles. I remember thinking if only I could skate.

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Caps practices are free to watch and I went out one day last week. I couldn't believe how much Lapierre really looks like the kid that he is.

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God Bless Nets' GM Sean Marks (Cal MBB '94-98, #44 pick in '98 draft, ten picks ahead of Tremaine Fowlkes, Cal ' 94-96) . He has to deal with Kyrie.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32397602/kyrie-irving-says-decision-remain-unvaccinated-being-true-feels-good-me

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Kyrie is such a clown. I don’t really understand NBA contract rules. Could they just DFA him like in baseball? I guess what should really happen is they should trade him to like Atlanta

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Watching mlb channel while eating lunch. Knebel to start tonight. Urias not injured. Apparently a tactical move.

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It's what the Brewers tried to do with the Dodgers a couple of years ago. Except they started a starter that had pitched a couple of games ago. Dodgers just had the regular starters in there thinking they would change to a reliever with the opposite hand after an inning or two.

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If I'm the Giants, I just keep the righty-heavy lineup I was going to use anyway, but move Crawford (lefty hitter) up into the top three spots so the opener has to face him. If Roberts gets fooled into holding Urias out as a result, all the better. I'd rather face the bullpen than Urias.

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So Knebel as an opener?

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Or as far as he can go? That's the discussion on mlb channel.

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I'm not sure he's ever pitched 2 full innings this year. He definitely is an opener to get through the first few batters so Urías skips them the first time through.

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Korey Lee (Cal '19) didn't play in '20 due to Covid. He tore up A ball this season, did okay after getting promoted to AA and is now getting used to AAA level pitching. But this throw was pretty sweet.

https://twitter.com/TheReelJZ/status/1448470885019443203

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Interesting that he started on one knee when there was a runner on first.

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USMNT rallies past Costa Rica in World Cup qualifying, 2-1

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/10/14/usmnt-player-ratings-from-dest-led-comeback-win-over-costa-rica/

USA sitting in good position, 2nd place in CONCACAF (top 3 will qualify).

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what are they going to do to blow it?

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Nothing, this squad is legit.

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Yeah, need to remember that Pulisic and Reyna are still out with injuries. Team should be even stronger once they return. I'd say the chances are very slim they miss qualification.

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That strike by Dest was a f'ing laser. Really impressive. We definitely needed this outcome after the egg they laid on Sunday.

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In fairness, that Sunday game was played on the road without a lot of the normal first string.

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Oh, totally. But still, even our C team should be able to have at least one shot on goal vs panama, no?

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Ray Fosse succumbs in his fight against cancer.

https://twitter.com/Athletics/status/1448452949252866050

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Sad, sad day.

Ray Fosse was the first A's catcher I can remember and he was a stalwart presence in the broadcast booth. He will be missed.

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Agreed, sad day. Been listening to Ray for half my life. Thoughts and prayers to his family.

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Longer than that, Jimmy Chitwood! We were teenagers when he stepped into the booth with Bill and Lon.

RIP to Ray. He was a truly beautiful person.

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I remember Ray Fosse all the way back to when he was the catcher at AAA Portland (when Portland had a AAA team). Scary to think of him as gone.

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Seems like he declined very quickly once he left the broadcast booth. Certainly a courageous battle against cancer. My Dad after being diagnosed with lung cancer held on for two years before succumbing.

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Game 5 Tonight SF vs LAD, who do you all have?

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The Los Angeles Dodgers will begin a winner-take-all Game 5 of the National League Division Series with right-handed reliever Corey Knebel, not left-handed starter Julio Urias.

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Dave Roberts trying to out-matchup the Giants. Unias expected in by the 2nd or 3rd inning. Roberts reportedly txted Gabe Kapler last night to advise him that this is the plan.

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LET'S GO GIANTS 👏🏽👏🏽 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

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Man, if the Giants win tonight, just call off the rest of the playoffs - there'd be nobody to root for.

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Seems like you still have two possibilities - the Braves and the Red Sox. Those teams are preferable to your nightmare WS matchup of Giants vs. Disastros.

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Why would I have any love for either of those teams?

Atlanta - first off, I don't do much rooting for southern teams, regardless of the sport. But especially not a team that has been to the postseason two out of every three years for three decades. Enough with the Braves! Moreover, they had a perfectly good and still young ballpark that they abandoned so that taxpayers in Cobb County - home of the Kennesaw, GA mandatory gun-possession ordinance - could build them a new stadium. Why did they move out of downtown Atlanta for suburban Cobb County? So that their fans wouldn't have to interact with as many undesirables. And yes, I'm saying they're racist.

Boston - I was fine with the Sox when they were losers, but then they won in 2004. And then 2007. And then they basically became the Yankees. And they won again in 2013. And then again in 2018. Enough. And keep in mind that New England is only 25 minutes away from me, so I'm already exhausted just thinking about having to hear from all the sox fans if they win again. Ugh.

I will root for the Dodgers in solidarity against the Giants, but if they lose tonight, I have no good options.

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Braves fans were also still busy doing the Tomahawk Chop on Columbus/Indigenous Peoples Day, so that's not great either.

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Yep, I’m in the same boat. Baseball is dead to me.

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You don't have to have any love for either team. But since you've indicated you don't, this year's World Series really sucks for you. Sorry about that.

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It's fine. At least I have Cal.

(Sobs quietly)

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I agree with this take 100%

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Just realized that if Braves-Red Sox were to be the 2021 WS matchup, it would pit two teams that started out in Boston.

According to baseball-reference.com, the Braves were originally known as the Boston Red Stockings (1876-1882). The franchise has subsequently been known as -

Boston Beaneaters (1883-1906)

Boston Doves (1907-1910)

Boston Rustlers (1911)

Boston Braves (1912-1952)

Boston Bees (1936-1940)

The Braves moved to Milwaukee in 1953, then to Atlanta in 1966.

The Red Sox weren't in existence as a franchise until 1901; originally known as the Boston Americans (1901-1907). They've been the Red Sox since 1908.

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MAKE BOSTON AMERICANS AGAIN!

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@Come on, FS, we all know wiki is the reference of choice on W4C@

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My Giants! My Giants!

It really annoys me that this series isn't the NLCS this year. The Giants and the Dodgers are the class of the NL. They should be playing for the right to advance to the World Series, not for the right to advance to the NLCS.

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This year has been yet another series of case studies in why baseball could stand to make numerous modernizations.

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And because we're on the subject, start with the playoffs.

There is no good reason why a wildcard team with 106 wins should be forced to play a wildcard team with less than 90 wins in a one-off to gain entry to the Division Series in either league. Just take the division champs and the two wildcards, seed them 1 to 5 based on regular season wins, and match 4th seed with the 5th seed in the Wildcard game (re-name it if you must); the winner of the Wildcard game plays the 1 seed in one Division Series matchup, while the 2 seed plays the 3 seed in the other Division Series matchup.

In the NL, that means the Cardinals and the Braves would have played in the Wildcard game (or whatever you want to call it), and the winner would have faced the Giants while the Dodgers would have matched up against the Brewers. The likelihood would have been that the NLCS and the right to advance to the World Series would have been a Giants vs Dodgers matchup, not the Braves vs. the winner of Giants vs. Dodgers.

In the AL, the matchups would still have been the same as they were anyhow because that's just how it worked out.

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You should get something for winning your division, as you do under the current rules.

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Why? Serious question.

Why is a division champ with 88 wins more deserving of a bye in the Wildcard round than a team that won 106 games in a hard fought division race?

I never thought of myself as particularly advocating for the Dodgers, but this is a legit question. What makes an 88 game winner deserving of more consideration over a 106 game winner when the 88 game winner arguably played in a weaker division?

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MLB will never let the division winners have to play a WC game. Defeats the purpose of winning a division. Not sure how to solve it though. Except to bring back the rule that a division winner cannot play a WC within the same conference until the league championship series. This rule definitely should be brought back.

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Divisions are artificial and arbitrary. Why not just go back to no divisions and take the top 5 teams in each league?

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MLB may well change the whole structure next year, but here's how I would adjust the current one:

1. Wild card round is best of three games, not one game. No off days, so you'd fly overnight from one location to another after the first game. That way a great team can't get caught against a dominant pitcher and knocked out in one game. Both teams would at least have to use all three of their best rotation guys.

2. Re-seed by record after the wild card round, so you don't have a Division Series with the two best teams beating each other up. Since MLB seems to heavily value advantages for division winners, keep the rule that division winners always get home field advantage over wild cards. So the Dodgers would be re-seeded to be #2 but would have to go on the road against Milwaukee.

That seems to strike a decent balance between keeping pennant races interesting and not making the playoff matchups seem dumb.

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And the WC game should be something other than a 1 game playoff. I like the rule where the lower team has to win 2 and the higher team only has to win 1.

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Giants in a blowout, because baseball is dumb.

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Giants have been outscored by the Dodgers in the series so far, 17-9, but the Dodgers have been shut out twice. Key to me is whether the Giants pitching can keep the Dodgers' bats quiet. If the Dodgers score more than 3 runs, it's over. Otherwise, it'll be another last-at-bat type of game.

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I can't watch the Giants in the playoffs, my stomach can't handle it

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GBBR. But I agree with goldenone it's going to be too close to call. Probably a one run game.

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I’m GBBR too. And, I am glad it came down to this. When the issue is in doubt, it is more fun to watch.

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please remind me what GBBR is

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See response to Scootie.

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It's fucked up, that's what it is.

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Ok Scootie, I laughed out loud when I read that, but there a few of us that are rooting for the “bad guys.’

Moribear, GBBR is “Go Dodgers” acronym. GBBR = Go Blue Boo Rishi.

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Go Blue, Boo Rishi.

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Giants just aren't hitting, which was somewhat expected...tough to win in the postseason when you're inconsistent with RISP and live and die by the long ball...good staffs shut that down, tho remarkably, the Giants have 2on two games with the long ball. It's tough to ask your pitching staff to keep throwing shutouts.

Webb needs to throw another gem, and Giants need to score first...

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Well the Dodgers also have had stretches where they didn't score many runs and also were reliant on the long ball. They only kept winning because the pitching staff was lights out. Hopefully they keep it up for at least 1 more game. And the Dodgers have also scored more runs, by far, for Urías than any other Dodgers starter.

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The Dodgers have scored the most runs in the NL, so obviously they have a great offense. But just anecdotally, in my observations of their games they seem to have been a bit feast-or-famine, with a fair number of games where they don't score much. This series has shown that pattern too (9 runs and 7 runs, but also two shutouts).

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They have a lot of games with double digit runs. And a lot of games with 0-2. Sometimes they don't seem to adjust to pitching. Like when the wind is blowing in hard, don't just try to kill the ball and hit a HR. Adjust your swing and maybe go oppo. Lux had been doing that in Sept and having a lot of success with it. JT does that as well. CT3 not so much.

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Speaking of Webb, one the announcers described him as having a "baby face" - well sure, if it was a UGLY baby.

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Now, Will Smith has a baby face. He looks like he should have peach fuzz.

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There were a couple of shots of him in the hoodie where I thought he looked like Matt Cain. Or No 3 pointed out he looks like Jesse Plemons (Landry from Friday Night Lights)

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He looks exactly like Wayne Rooney

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Mrs Slug made the same observation about Webb looking like Plemons. I also thought it, but didn't want to voice it because I thought it might seen as too far afield, as it were.

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You just insulted Jesse Plemons.

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Too close to call.

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Today in COVID

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FDA approves Moderna booster via emergency authorization

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/14/health/fda-vaccine-advisers-moderna-thursday/index.html

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Crumbling Democracies

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Essential reading to understand the Democrats perennial problems with centrist voters:

"To anyone who’s spent time in Democratic politics in the past decade, a certain type of young person will immediately be familiar: bright-eyed, old enough to drive a car but not old enough to rent one without insurance fees, maybe taking a gap year before starting college or else filling a period of post-graduation, pre-employment idleness.

They probably majored, or are majoring, in political science or public policy or whatever the equivalent area of study offered by their school is. Raised on a steady diet of West Wing optimism cut with a healthy dose of Veep pessimism, they’ve likely spent a summer or two sweating it out in Washington, D.C., cranking out esoteric policy memos for a junior member’s assistant deputy legislative director, or else doing research for a grizzled senior fellow at an upper-Massachusetts Avenue think tank. They might have a faded campaign button from some bygone presidential race dangling from their Fjällräven backpack — maybe for Bernie, or more likely for Pete."

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/10/09/david-shor-democrats-privileged-college-kid-problem-514992

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TSA agents are government workers, so are required to be vaccinated. 40% of TSA is not vaccinated. The deadline to get a Moderna shot already passed. The deadline to get a Pfizer vaccine is in four days. The deadline for a J&J vaccine is in 3 weeks. TSA says there won't be a worker shortage over the holidays, but... uh... this can't be good.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/13/politics/tsa-covid-vaccinated-employees-deadline/index.html

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40% of the people who interact with hundreds, if not thousands, of flyers every day? jfc

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What about SFO and other airports that are contracted. At least I seem to remember this being the case back when SFO and perhaps other CA airpots that didn't have large lines due to Covid.

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Government contractors are required to be vaccinated as well.

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Check your Bull$**t Bingo Cards, folks. You might be a winner if you had "Caravan of 40,000 Gucci-Wearing Brazilians Headed to Connecticut" on your card today.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1448284728247955463

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Wearing designer clothes and gucci bags? Those must be some pretty big bags.

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Terrorist need big and expensive bags to carry all their bombs. Terrorist aren’t very discrete so it makes sense they would want Gucci bags to draw plenty of attention to themselves before they start their terrorizing.

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CNN: House will write a criminal referral to the DOJ today against Steve Bannon. Kash Patel also a candidate for this if he doesn't given testimony today. Here comes the court case that flexes Title 28 U.S. Code Section 1365, which was passed by Congress four years before the US Civil War.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/14/politics/steve-bannon-deposition-deadline/index.html

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I don’t get it, why wouldn’t they testify if they have nothing to hide and are innocent?!?!

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Thiel is a horse's a$$. He's also no friend of democracy.

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He truly is a deplorable and terrible person.

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Also a elementary school classmate of a W4C poster

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He was a horse's ass back then too. And a nose picker/eater.

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Cal

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I'm flying out to visit my pops next month...so I'll be getting to see some of you at the U$C game

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DBD tailgate!

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It's bulgogi tortas.

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What the hell just happened to our 2022 class

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Aaarrrgghh

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big oof

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Unfortunately we played games this year??

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Cal vs Oregon Predictions

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The question isn’t how much Cal will lose by, it’s how many recruits will we lose after this loss?

My guess is we see 2 de-commits after this game.

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Can't imagine there will be many; it's not as though any likely losing outcome will constitute much of a surprise.

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Oregon 42 - Cal 6

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What's the spread? We definitely aren't going to cover.

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Oregon by 13.5. Actually the bookmakers originally had the line at 14, it went up to 14.5 now down to 13.5.

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They must know something we don't know.

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It might be a response to Oregon's injuries: RB CJ Verdell and the starting safety

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They certainly haven't watched our games then.

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Other College

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Better late than never I suppose. I'm not surprised Von KleinSmid's grubby fingerprints were all over that.

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That is a damning set of facts.

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Gonna be one month since I've moved in on Sunday. I've kicked ass so far, written 4 articles for "The Santa Clara", starting up with the sports broadcasting program for MBB and WBB, and have a job opportunity waiting for winter quarter related to sports blogging if I take it. Not to mention I'm actually ahead on work and never have more than 2 classes worth on weekends, allowing me to voluntarily go to bed at 2 watching youtube and twitch instead of suffering.

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Would you stop being such a good college student and start being a normal college student that procrastinates far too long.

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Soon.... :)

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Can you send out the links again? I didn't get a chance to read them when you sent them out.

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Helicopter

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Have taken tourist helicopters over the 12 Apostles in Australia and Angkor Wat in Cambodia. The pilot in Cambodia flew barefoot.

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Quite a bit for several years working forestry in SE Alaska. Saves a lot of time and energy. Picked up on logging landing/road then dropped off in high muskeg. Return to muskeg for afternoon pickup or walk back out to truck either as planned or due weather.

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Assiniboine Lodge in British Columbia

a short but spectacular 8 min ride from the Mt Shark helipad near Canmore brings you to one of the most amazing backcountry hiking and ski lodges in the Canadian Rockies.

i have taken it for buth summer hiking and winter backcountry skiing. it is a lot more work, but the winter is arguably more beautiful but you do have to skin up any hill you want to ski down. so you definitely "earn your turns"

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I've never seen skis like that before. They're fat. Are they for hillier terrain than what skinny XC skis can do?

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my ski are the bright green ones, by the way

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so they are fat because you are mostly skiing downhill on untouched powder.

also, the larger surface area is good for when you are going uphill. they sort of act as snowshoes so your weight is spread out a bit more and you dont sink in as much as you go uphill, especially if you are in the lead.

you put skins on the bottom of your skis as you go uphill. so you slide up easily, but the friction on the skins in the downhill direction makes it so you dont slide back down.

at the top of your ascent, you stow the skin in your pack, tweak your bindings into downhill mode, click in your back heel, and ski down

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Those are telemark skis. Good grief, I haven't thought about telemark skis in decades, but I can still recognize 'em.

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mine are not telemark, but some people use telemark for the same purpose.

my binding are called "alpine touring" meaning that you release the heel for uphill travel, and click in for downhill.

on telemark, the heel is always free.

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I've never ridden in a helicopter.

Now, helicopter parents, I've seen those. The species tends to make itself known in school settings and sports settings. I've seen them in both places. I feel bad for their kids.

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Rode in one over the Bay with my sister (her idea) - actually pretty cool.

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I rode one once in Hawaii to see some volcanoes and lava flows along the coast. Pretty cool, although I started getting dizzy after too much circling.

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My helicopter experience was also in Hawaii, but no lava for me. Still cool, still eventually got a bit nauseated!

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My wife is planning on being a helicopter pilot in her retirement. I'm bracing for the $130k cost of getting the license and enough airtime within three years. Normally, nobody does the training because almost all helicopter pilots come from the military, where training/airtime is provided.

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My paternal g'mother expressed a desire to get a pilots license when in her 60s. Never happened.

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I actually have thought about it, in my late 40's...but not sure.

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Wow, I didn't realize it was that expensive. I have a couple friends with (airplane) pilot licenses, and I don't recall any complaints about how expensive it was.

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Why?

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* shrug * The heart wants what it wants. I think it's out of character and out of left field, but who am I to tell her what her dream is. I did tell her that I am taking out a new life policy on her.

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I guess hope that it remains a dream...

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I thought when I got my life insurance policy they had a clause that I couldn't get a private pilot's license.

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Is it that much? Wow. I would also love to quit being a SW Eng and be a pilot, except for the cost and that I'm too close to mandatory retirement to make it worth it.

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if you're happy with just getting the feel of flying, there are much cheaper options, like an autogyro. Not really of any practical use that I can think of, but seems like it would be fun.

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I've always wanted to be a pilot. In my youth I loved fighter jets and then saw Top Gun. I don't have 20/20 and I would probably get nauseous so I didn't try to be a fighter pilot.

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Is your sight worse than Jon Cryer's as Washout in Hot Shots?

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heh...nope not as bad as washouts. Luckily.

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Below Average Gun

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Bottom 25 Gun, suitable for Cal football fan.

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it's a mode of transport that I'll never get in, along with a cruise ship

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I see military helicopters flying up and down the Potomac almost everyday. Never been on one myself.

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they're LOUD too - we periodically get flights over our house, and they are noticeably louder than the police & medevac helicopters

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Same. There's no mistaking when one of those flies nearby.

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Never ridden one. Helicopters seem very dangerous and crash a lot.

Biggest helicopter parents I know are my brother and SIL.

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The model I flew in over Angkor Wat has (supposedly) never been in a crash.

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Did a helicopter excursion to the Iditarod dog sledding camp on the Mendenhall Glacier back in '14 on my Alaskan cruise with the positively-dreadful-former-Mrs. Jimmy Chitwood...we wore our Top Dog shirts and got a great picture with the huskies...truly a highlight of our time together.

The helicopter ride was very cool, tho I was nervous...those things go down.

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I’ve done a few Alaskan cruises but I have never done the helicopter excursion to Mendenhall. My friend did it the last time we went and he loved it.

You always mention how dreadful the ex is/was, was she not before marriage? How did you two meet?

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The AK chopper to the dog sled camp was awesome - highly recommended.

We met by working near each other, and our paths crossed...she was younger and better looking...that masks a lot of crazy.

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<<himym hot vs crazy graph.gif>>

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I kinda wish I knew how to fly one. It looks much tougher than a plane, controls wise. Having to coordinate all 4 controls seems really tough.

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Rode in one in Alaska when I did salmon fishing one summer while I attended Cal.

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