I'm still holding out hope for Cal to be invited to join the Big 10. My only fear is that Clueless Carol will nix it because U can't C Berkeley from the midwest. Of course Oski would have to go, probably replaced by a Golden Doormat.
Fully agree. But what I read makes me believe the legislatures of both states are serious, because it's all about the money. Without UW, WASU's football program is dust and the school will wither, and without the Ducks, OSU is a community college. Think about it, right now WASU and OSU get equal shares of PAC12 revenue in dinky media markets. If their big brothers leave then they are left with literally nothing. The PAC12 members are going to fight to hold it together because of the money, especially knowing they won't get it anywhere else. And, as I understand, UCLA is going to be required by the UC Regents to give CAL between $5m to $10m annually. (If there is more up to date information that I have not been privy to that refutes this then I stand corrected).
I still don't understand the importance of a new conference member having R1 standing. I'd venture to guess that is you asked Cal fans what R1 status means, less than 80% or more would know what that meant, and if they learn what it meant, they would say they don't care if a school achieved it or not. They would likely say something like "what's that got to do with playing football?
I recently spoke with a friend who was involved for many years in high level academic issues at Arizona. He agrees that any insistance in meeting R1 standards is a joke and is inconsistent wtih sports matters. BTW, do all of the Power 5 schools require all of their schools to meet the R1 standarads? If not, why not?
I do think Boise St. should be more highly considered. They have a pretty long history of football excellence, is in a growing market and has natural rivals in with each of the two Washington and Oregon schools.
And, as I'v said before UNLV has a lot of potential, both from being a great destination city for visitng fans to visit and a good and growing TV market. All that has to be done is for the Pac 12 (11, 10?) to impose all sorts of requirements that must be met in order to achieve acceptance into the Pac. This could include a significant increase in their football and scholastic budget.
USC and UCLA have yet to play any sports schedules as B1G members. It wouldn't surprise me to find that travel will have a negative impact on team performances in all sports and it drags down the overall performance and reputations of each school's athletic programs.
Give it five years. We might just see a reversal of USC's and UCLA's decision to leave the Pac-12. I'm not sure I'd bet against it, even if the money is insane.
Mr. Avi, aside from the academic part which I get, can you explain to me how a partner athletic school needs to be a "cultural" fit? So Cal and Stanford could never join the Big 12 because they don't fit in culturally with those red state schools in Texas and Oklahoma? Last time I checked, the U of T is in the liberal bastion of Austin. Or is it something else? I am really interested in this part.
Neither of these schools really moves the needle with regards to expansion and potential TV money. Sure a roadie to Adam Diego and Dallas here and there will be cool, but the Big XII fucked us by jumping line to a new TV deal which essentially has reset the market value downwards. The PAC will not be getting anywhere near the $40M per school they had hoped for.
Screw pac 12. Always snubbing boise state. Fits perfectly with its northwest location. Great football school! Tulane , smu,. Really. Even sandiego state. No one cares about them on a national level. People on national scale like boise state. They follow them. Yet pac 12 isn't interested. Fresno has great football program as well. Pac 12 leadership is not doing the conference justice. The decisions they are making will ruin the con ference. They would have a .much better chance to get a media deal done if they added boise and fresno.
I am a bear of little brain who also has been wondering just why in the hell do the academics or cultural fit matter when it comes to deciding who you are going to play football with?
But it's kind of starting to dawn on me (or perhaps I'm starting to remember) that the University of California at Berkeley is also a kind of *business*, just like its football team is a kind of *business*.
The University of California at Berkeley's total operating revenue in 2020 was approximately $3.1 BILLION, which includes not only tuition and fees but also government grants, donations, and other sources of funding. (source: University of California's Annual Financial Report for the 2020 fiscal year)
As for the Athletic department, total operating revenue for the 2019-2020 academic year was approximately $106.4 million, which includes ticket sales, contributions, media rights, royalties, and other sources of income. (source: UC Berkeley's Equity in Athletics Data Analysis (EADA) report)
So I'm drawing the conclusion that "academic" and "cultural fit" are really more like polite euphemisms for the sheer scale at which R1's do the *business* of academics, and it clearly dwarfs the business of football.
Being a USC/STANFORD alum, I look forward to USC in the BIG 10 and I believe Stanford will also end up in either the BIG 10, BIG 12 or possibly ACC.I also look forward to CAL being in a league with their peers, San Jose State, Fresno State, SDSU, UNLV, UNR, Boise State, Hawaii, OSU, WSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, CSU and Airforce and USU.
Ohio St and Washington cancelling their home and home in 24-25 makes it seem like UW and probably UO are joining the B1G. Cal will be left behind and the entire athletics dept will wither on the vine. It wouldn’t shock me if the school drops football in 15-20 years.
Pac-12 closer to inviting San Diego State, quiet on SMU, not interested in Rice; Fresno State & Big 12 talking
I'm still holding out hope for Cal to be invited to join the Big 10. My only fear is that Clueless Carol will nix it because U can't C Berkeley from the midwest. Of course Oski would have to go, probably replaced by a Golden Doormat.
Fully agree. But what I read makes me believe the legislatures of both states are serious, because it's all about the money. Without UW, WASU's football program is dust and the school will wither, and without the Ducks, OSU is a community college. Think about it, right now WASU and OSU get equal shares of PAC12 revenue in dinky media markets. If their big brothers leave then they are left with literally nothing. The PAC12 members are going to fight to hold it together because of the money, especially knowing they won't get it anywhere else. And, as I understand, UCLA is going to be required by the UC Regents to give CAL between $5m to $10m annually. (If there is more up to date information that I have not been privy to that refutes this then I stand corrected).
Gobears49
I still don't understand the importance of a new conference member having R1 standing. I'd venture to guess that is you asked Cal fans what R1 status means, less than 80% or more would know what that meant, and if they learn what it meant, they would say they don't care if a school achieved it or not. They would likely say something like "what's that got to do with playing football?
I recently spoke with a friend who was involved for many years in high level academic issues at Arizona. He agrees that any insistance in meeting R1 standards is a joke and is inconsistent wtih sports matters. BTW, do all of the Power 5 schools require all of their schools to meet the R1 standarads? If not, why not?
I do think Boise St. should be more highly considered. They have a pretty long history of football excellence, is in a growing market and has natural rivals in with each of the two Washington and Oregon schools.
And, as I'v said before UNLV has a lot of potential, both from being a great destination city for visitng fans to visit and a good and growing TV market. All that has to be done is for the Pac 12 (11, 10?) to impose all sorts of requirements that must be met in order to achieve acceptance into the Pac. This could include a significant increase in their football and scholastic budget.
Feels like any scenario is nearly as likely as the next, including the conference blowing up.
USC and UCLA have yet to play any sports schedules as B1G members. It wouldn't surprise me to find that travel will have a negative impact on team performances in all sports and it drags down the overall performance and reputations of each school's athletic programs.
Give it five years. We might just see a reversal of USC's and UCLA's decision to leave the Pac-12. I'm not sure I'd bet against it, even if the money is insane.
Mr. Avi, aside from the academic part which I get, can you explain to me how a partner athletic school needs to be a "cultural" fit? So Cal and Stanford could never join the Big 12 because they don't fit in culturally with those red state schools in Texas and Oklahoma? Last time I checked, the U of T is in the liberal bastion of Austin. Or is it something else? I am really interested in this part.
Neither of these schools really moves the needle with regards to expansion and potential TV money. Sure a roadie to Adam Diego and Dallas here and there will be cool, but the Big XII fucked us by jumping line to a new TV deal which essentially has reset the market value downwards. The PAC will not be getting anywhere near the $40M per school they had hoped for.
I'm fine with adding anyone.
I'm sure Oregon and Washington won't be here long and Cal may exit too.
Screw pac 12. Always snubbing boise state. Fits perfectly with its northwest location. Great football school! Tulane , smu,. Really. Even sandiego state. No one cares about them on a national level. People on national scale like boise state. They follow them. Yet pac 12 isn't interested. Fresno has great football program as well. Pac 12 leadership is not doing the conference justice. The decisions they are making will ruin the con ference. They would have a .much better chance to get a media deal done if they added boise and fresno.
I am a bear of little brain who also has been wondering just why in the hell do the academics or cultural fit matter when it comes to deciding who you are going to play football with?
But it's kind of starting to dawn on me (or perhaps I'm starting to remember) that the University of California at Berkeley is also a kind of *business*, just like its football team is a kind of *business*.
The University of California at Berkeley's total operating revenue in 2020 was approximately $3.1 BILLION, which includes not only tuition and fees but also government grants, donations, and other sources of funding. (source: University of California's Annual Financial Report for the 2020 fiscal year)
As for the Athletic department, total operating revenue for the 2019-2020 academic year was approximately $106.4 million, which includes ticket sales, contributions, media rights, royalties, and other sources of income. (source: UC Berkeley's Equity in Athletics Data Analysis (EADA) report)
So I'm drawing the conclusion that "academic" and "cultural fit" are really more like polite euphemisms for the sheer scale at which R1's do the *business* of academics, and it clearly dwarfs the business of football.
Can anyone provide me the explanation for CSU being considered? I live in Fort Collins so I’m all for it!
True, but in the case of WASU and OSU in the PAC12 it could come down to survival.
Gobears49
Boise St. has had a winning record for every year starting in 1998 and was in a bowl game in all of those years but two.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boise_State_Broncos_football_seasons
So, Fresno State is suitable for the Big 12 and not us.
Being a USC/STANFORD alum, I look forward to USC in the BIG 10 and I believe Stanford will also end up in either the BIG 10, BIG 12 or possibly ACC.I also look forward to CAL being in a league with their peers, San Jose State, Fresno State, SDSU, UNLV, UNR, Boise State, Hawaii, OSU, WSU, Wyoming, New Mexico, CSU and Airforce and USU.
Ohio St and Washington cancelling their home and home in 24-25 makes it seem like UW and probably UO are joining the B1G. Cal will be left behind and the entire athletics dept will wither on the vine. It wouldn’t shock me if the school drops football in 15-20 years.