Let's say the Bears beat WSU, Colorado, Arizona, and...Stanfurd. Is that enough to keep Wilcox?......answering my own question...I think yes. But losing to one of the bottom feeders (therefore making us one) and even a furd win might not be enough.
In retrospect, I'm curious how many folks today would vote to have kept Tedford versus the past decade years of Dykes and Wilcox. I agreed that Tedford had run his course, but I'd suspect he would have leveled out the ship eventually. Wilcox doesn't have the benefit of Tedford's early success, but I'm now more inclined to think that betting on continuity and lowering expectations a notch or two is the better bet than making another coaching change that more likely than not will disappoint again.
After 40 some years of passionate Cal fandom, I'm only being realistic. You're otherwise going to be frustrated literally every year from now until you die. In many ways, the cards are more stacked against Cal ever having any sustained success again in the revenue sports than at any point in the program's history--and we've had many dark decades my friend. Maybe we punch through with one 8-4 or 9-3 once every twenty-five years, but it will always be short and fleeting and there's otherwise a whole lot of wasted energy worrying. I'll always be watching, but I'm not gonna waste any time dreaming of a rose bowl or north division championship. Those dreams ended with Kevin Riley taking a knee already nearly fifteen years ago. Poof.
Yes. We're not a school like USC/UT that can afford to just keep rotating coaches until they find one that works. We need someone who can build a program at Cal even if it takes some patience. Wilcox is showing some worrisome growth pains that weren't showing up before, but on the other hand, our offense is improving. We desperately need to fill in some gaps but I don't think we're hopeless. We're like 5 plays from being 3-0.
That said, he better f****ing wipe the special teams coaching staff off the map before the next season. They're directly responsible for 2 losses, which is completely unacceptable. You shouldn't notice ST unless they make game-winning plays.
While I am rethinking just how much of a Cal Bear fan I can remain to be after over a half century of heartbreak I will stick to my guns on this one. If the Cal bears go 1 and 11 but the "1" is "leland stanford junior college" I consider that a successful season.
Only exception would be a total breakdown, like Wilcox losing the team’s respect, players giving up, academic or legal scandals, etc. I can’t see any of that happening.
I think it's time to move on from the Wilcox era. Last season is looking less like a fluke than we thought. The defense has deteriorated, the offense is maybe a B-, special teams is an F, and recruiting is suffering. I vote for Holman Wiggins to be offered the job - He has been coaching in the Alabama offensive system, has now worked for Saban and Justin Fuentes, and he is a California native - so can use the ties to recruit. If we lose to WSU I think the AD should pull the plug and get started on the search.
Offense is 2nd in the Pac 12 under OSU, who is no. 1. Musgrave has been vindicated. Sirmon is the guy leading the 11th place defense in the conference,.
The great west coast connections of the current staff have us at...50 something in recruiting rankings, and pre covid it was 43rd and 8th in the pac-12. I'd submit that the coach of last year's Heisman trophy winner can at least turn some offensive heads our way.
Can you say more about this, Leland? Do you feel our current results and play on the field will improve our recruiting going forward? or, is it more hoping that 4 wins or so will raise us above that level? or maybe you have a better view on where we are this point in each season and where we end up.
Having watched the first 3 Cal games (Sac St in person), I was completely disheartened how this season was going. Nevada - it seemed like they expected to win, effort was lacking. TCU felt like let's keep it close, maybe we'll win. Sac St felt like a scrimmage & the players just want to get back to their dorm. I am very encouraged by this game, the players finally came to play, this was far and away their best effort. Keep it up, and I now believe it is possible that we could bizarrely win 7 of our next 8. Will we? Unlikely, as each of those 7 games will likely be decided by a touchdown or less.
Yes, thanks Nick! Like Vegasbear and many of you others, I've been a long suffering fan. But I'm going in the other direction! Instead of giving up, I've decided to give in...to just enjoying and appreciating who we are. Yes, I get it! Maybe the team is not as good as we hoped. But as I get older, I'm feeling okay with that. The players are young kids doing the best they can. Sure maybe we didn't recruit as well or maybe some players didn't develop or learn as fast as they could have. That's OK! Maybe the coaches didn't make exactly the right decisions or play calls (alright, these guys get paid so they are fair game). The point is, I want to support our team for whatever they are this year. I saw a lot of great signs that they will get better --- the two successful misdirection 4th down calls in the 1st quarter; the extended scoring drives in all 4 games but esp. against the very solid huskies defense; and the defense rising up on occasion as well. I think they will put it all together very soon.
So many thoughts of “shoulda, coulda, woulda.” Went to bed Saturday night recalling that 2004 Cal-U$C drive of Rodgers and MacArthur. Followed by: How does the best university in the world get snakebit for 60+ consecutive years, and fail to make it into the Rose Bowl? So many thoughts…
I would not just be surprised with a 7-5 record, but also stunned and shocked. It would mean Wilcox' first winning record in conference, a 6-3 record to be exact. The last Cal coach to pull that off was Jeff Tedford in 2008. I think he may have still been sleeping on a cot at Memorial Stadium when that happened.
The three teams that come to mind and standing in the way of a 7-5 record are Oregon, Oregon State and UCLA. I think Cal is certainly capable of beating the rest, but it requires playing complete games. They have not showed any of that yet. And they need to be healthy. Still waiting for the injury report...
We can drop 2, and I would assume it is UCLA and USC as guaranteed losses this year. I know USC is sucking this year, but I just don't see our secondary holding against a superior talent like that. Oregon is a probable loss, and tossups are Oregon State and Stanfurd. But if between USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Furd, we can pick up 2-3 wins I'd say Wilcox earned not getting fired in what was a tumultuous year for the entire league.
I've had over 50 years of this "heartbreak" you speak of. Enough, already. I'm done with any hope that the Cal Bears will ever be in the top 5 teams of the Pac 12, let alone win a Pac 12 championship. I have not seen the WA game yet, but, in the first 3 games this year I saw no real effort, and clearly little joy, from those who were gifted with an extra chance at playing NCAA football. It was rational to believe that the extra experience would make us an even better team than the one that beat OR last year. Until, of course, you factor in the fact that we're talking about the Cal Bears. I won't be fooled again. I flew up for the Sac St. game as I've done for a few years taking my son and his family. It's the last time I make that effort. I'll follow the Cal Bears much as I follow a few NCAA and NFL teams. I will, however, not call myself a fan anymore. There's no more joy in Berkeley for football fans than there was in Mudville in the Thayer poem!
Agreed. Vegasbear, I get it. I let Cal's plight ruin many days of my life and it wasn't fun. I'm older now (Duh?) and I still invest too much of my heart in the team, but I watched the game Saturday and walked away encouraged and proud of how Cal finished that game (minus the fumble). If a loss like that still gave me nothing but misery, I'd need to walk away, too.
The hard part was that Cal played better, especially in the second half...but blew it. We should have won; that's the difficult pill here. Typical Cal bad luck.
Another pivotal play for me was the defensive holding call in the secondary on 3 and long in, I believe, the 2nd quarter. They did not show a replay at the game so I don't know if it was legit, but Norris had no one to throw to, chucked it out of bounds for a 4th dow.......oops, first and, essentially, goal. 7 points instead of 3. Again, one (minor?) error that helps swing the game the other way.
I was out camping this weekend and just saw a highlight on replay.... what the fuck was that call??? The ref said it was on #10 of the Cal defense, but there *is* no Cal #10 on defense. I assume it must have been #20 Drayden (that's what it says on the ESPN box score play by play), but it didn't look like holding and was no where near they play. Total horseshit call that gifted a TD to Washington.
I had similar thoughts as the game progressed. Our offense seems to be fine - the best in the Wilcox era but we still have execution problems at inopportune moments. I also hope the defense can continue its more solid play as we saw in the second half. I also agree that we are not as physical as we have been in the past. Not much gang tackling, either.
Nick,Thanks for you thoughts. It's uncanny how you express sentiments that I consistently acknowledge with a "Yes, that's what I was thinking!" But honestly, only after you say it do I register the complete thought. It takes your words to bring out my unformed sentences. That's why I love all of you guys at WFC! Each of you can put thoughts into words in a way that clarify and affirm vague, nagging notions that sit unarticulated in my aging skull. Write On You Bears!
Let's say the Bears beat WSU, Colorado, Arizona, and...Stanfurd. Is that enough to keep Wilcox?......answering my own question...I think yes. But losing to one of the bottom feeders (therefore making us one) and even a furd win might not be enough.
In retrospect, I'm curious how many folks today would vote to have kept Tedford versus the past decade years of Dykes and Wilcox. I agreed that Tedford had run his course, but I'd suspect he would have leveled out the ship eventually. Wilcox doesn't have the benefit of Tedford's early success, but I'm now more inclined to think that betting on continuity and lowering expectations a notch or two is the better bet than making another coaching change that more likely than not will disappoint again.
So we're OK with 5-7 most of the time, with an occasional 7-5 season? Meh
After 40 some years of passionate Cal fandom, I'm only being realistic. You're otherwise going to be frustrated literally every year from now until you die. In many ways, the cards are more stacked against Cal ever having any sustained success again in the revenue sports than at any point in the program's history--and we've had many dark decades my friend. Maybe we punch through with one 8-4 or 9-3 once every twenty-five years, but it will always be short and fleeting and there's otherwise a whole lot of wasted energy worrying. I'll always be watching, but I'm not gonna waste any time dreaming of a rose bowl or north division championship. Those dreams ended with Kevin Riley taking a knee already nearly fifteen years ago. Poof.
Yes. We're not a school like USC/UT that can afford to just keep rotating coaches until they find one that works. We need someone who can build a program at Cal even if it takes some patience. Wilcox is showing some worrisome growth pains that weren't showing up before, but on the other hand, our offense is improving. We desperately need to fill in some gaps but I don't think we're hopeless. We're like 5 plays from being 3-0.
That said, he better f****ing wipe the special teams coaching staff off the map before the next season. They're directly responsible for 2 losses, which is completely unacceptable. You shouldn't notice ST unless they make game-winning plays.
Wilcox isn't going anywhere.
I continue to guess he'll be returning for far less than that.
While I am rethinking just how much of a Cal Bear fan I can remain to be after over a half century of heartbreak I will stick to my guns on this one. If the Cal bears go 1 and 11 but the "1" is "leland stanford junior college" I consider that a successful season.
5-7 with a win over Stanford? 100% they keep him.
Only exception would be a total breakdown, like Wilcox losing the team’s respect, players giving up, academic or legal scandals, etc. I can’t see any of that happening.
It may depend on how many other recruits start looking elsewhere.....we've already lost our two best ones.....
I think it's time to move on from the Wilcox era. Last season is looking less like a fluke than we thought. The defense has deteriorated, the offense is maybe a B-, special teams is an F, and recruiting is suffering. I vote for Holman Wiggins to be offered the job - He has been coaching in the Alabama offensive system, has now worked for Saban and Justin Fuentes, and he is a California native - so can use the ties to recruit. If we lose to WSU I think the AD should pull the plug and get started on the search.
Offense is middle of the Pac 12 and trending higher. Never heard of Wiggins but I'll look him up.
Offense is 2nd in the Pac 12 under OSU, who is no. 1. Musgrave has been vindicated. Sirmon is the guy leading the 11th place defense in the conference,.
The great west coast connections of the current staff have us at...50 something in recruiting rankings, and pre covid it was 43rd and 8th in the pac-12. I'd submit that the coach of last year's Heisman trophy winner can at least turn some offensive heads our way.
I wouldn't place too much weight on our rankings for the 2022 class so early.
Can you say more about this, Leland? Do you feel our current results and play on the field will improve our recruiting going forward? or, is it more hoping that 4 wins or so will raise us above that level? or maybe you have a better view on where we are this point in each season and where we end up.
Agreed, this season ~ so far ~ and the ramifications it has had (loss of recruits) does not bode well for this year's class.
I will note that this is the same administration that hired Mark Fox, so I'm really hoping Wilcox and his team turn it around.
I can see them hiring John Embree or Mike Stoops
*shiver*
Having watched the first 3 Cal games (Sac St in person), I was completely disheartened how this season was going. Nevada - it seemed like they expected to win, effort was lacking. TCU felt like let's keep it close, maybe we'll win. Sac St felt like a scrimmage & the players just want to get back to their dorm. I am very encouraged by this game, the players finally came to play, this was far and away their best effort. Keep it up, and I now believe it is possible that we could bizarrely win 7 of our next 8. Will we? Unlikely, as each of those 7 games will likely be decided by a touchdown or less.
Let's just forget the results of September and kill October and November. I believe that we will win!
I think that's what Oregon State used to do under Mike Riley
Yes, thanks Nick! Like Vegasbear and many of you others, I've been a long suffering fan. But I'm going in the other direction! Instead of giving up, I've decided to give in...to just enjoying and appreciating who we are. Yes, I get it! Maybe the team is not as good as we hoped. But as I get older, I'm feeling okay with that. The players are young kids doing the best they can. Sure maybe we didn't recruit as well or maybe some players didn't develop or learn as fast as they could have. That's OK! Maybe the coaches didn't make exactly the right decisions or play calls (alright, these guys get paid so they are fair game). The point is, I want to support our team for whatever they are this year. I saw a lot of great signs that they will get better --- the two successful misdirection 4th down calls in the 1st quarter; the extended scoring drives in all 4 games but esp. against the very solid huskies defense; and the defense rising up on occasion as well. I think they will put it all together very soon.
GO BEARS!!!
So many thoughts of “shoulda, coulda, woulda.” Went to bed Saturday night recalling that 2004 Cal-U$C drive of Rodgers and MacArthur. Followed by: How does the best university in the world get snakebit for 60+ consecutive years, and fail to make it into the Rose Bowl? So many thoughts…
If we get what we saw in the 2nd half the rest of the season I would not be surprised if we finish 7-5.
By the way, that should be the baseline of an acceptable season in year 5 of the Wilcox era.
So we will go 6-2 for the rest of the season? Wilcox will get extension at end of the season for sure.
That would mean beating at least one of Oregon, UCLA, and Stanfurd. Hard to complain about a winning Pac-12 record and and a big win like that.
I would not just be surprised with a 7-5 record, but also stunned and shocked. It would mean Wilcox' first winning record in conference, a 6-3 record to be exact. The last Cal coach to pull that off was Jeff Tedford in 2008. I think he may have still been sleeping on a cot at Memorial Stadium when that happened.
The three teams that come to mind and standing in the way of a 7-5 record are Oregon, Oregon State and UCLA. I think Cal is certainly capable of beating the rest, but it requires playing complete games. They have not showed any of that yet. And they need to be healthy. Still waiting for the injury report...
We can drop 2, and I would assume it is UCLA and USC as guaranteed losses this year. I know USC is sucking this year, but I just don't see our secondary holding against a superior talent like that. Oregon is a probable loss, and tossups are Oregon State and Stanfurd. But if between USC, UCLA, Oregon, and Furd, we can pick up 2-3 wins I'd say Wilcox earned not getting fired in what was a tumultuous year for the entire league.
I've had over 50 years of this "heartbreak" you speak of. Enough, already. I'm done with any hope that the Cal Bears will ever be in the top 5 teams of the Pac 12, let alone win a Pac 12 championship. I have not seen the WA game yet, but, in the first 3 games this year I saw no real effort, and clearly little joy, from those who were gifted with an extra chance at playing NCAA football. It was rational to believe that the extra experience would make us an even better team than the one that beat OR last year. Until, of course, you factor in the fact that we're talking about the Cal Bears. I won't be fooled again. I flew up for the Sac St. game as I've done for a few years taking my son and his family. It's the last time I make that effort. I'll follow the Cal Bears much as I follow a few NCAA and NFL teams. I will, however, not call myself a fan anymore. There's no more joy in Berkeley for football fans than there was in Mudville in the Thayer poem!
"gifted with an extra chance at playing NCAA football". Do you know how impossibly hard you have to work to get a P5 football scholarship?
If Cal football is a net negative in your life, I'd certainly recommend stepping back from the fandom.
Agreed. Vegasbear, I get it. I let Cal's plight ruin many days of my life and it wasn't fun. I'm older now (Duh?) and I still invest too much of my heart in the team, but I watched the game Saturday and walked away encouraged and proud of how Cal finished that game (minus the fumble). If a loss like that still gave me nothing but misery, I'd need to walk away, too.
The hard part was that Cal played better, especially in the second half...but blew it. We should have won; that's the difficult pill here. Typical Cal bad luck.
Another pivotal play for me was the defensive holding call in the secondary on 3 and long in, I believe, the 2nd quarter. They did not show a replay at the game so I don't know if it was legit, but Norris had no one to throw to, chucked it out of bounds for a 4th dow.......oops, first and, essentially, goal. 7 points instead of 3. Again, one (minor?) error that helps swing the game the other way.
Yeah, the broadcast was awful about showing replays of penalties, I don't have a good sense of whether half of them were decent calls
I was out camping this weekend and just saw a highlight on replay.... what the fuck was that call??? The ref said it was on #10 of the Cal defense, but there *is* no Cal #10 on defense. I assume it must have been #20 Drayden (that's what it says on the ESPN box score play by play), but it didn't look like holding and was no where near they play. Total horseshit call that gifted a TD to Washington.
I had similar thoughts as the game progressed. Our offense seems to be fine - the best in the Wilcox era but we still have execution problems at inopportune moments. I also hope the defense can continue its more solid play as we saw in the second half. I also agree that we are not as physical as we have been in the past. Not much gang tackling, either.
Nick,Thanks for you thoughts. It's uncanny how you express sentiments that I consistently acknowledge with a "Yes, that's what I was thinking!" But honestly, only after you say it do I register the complete thought. It takes your words to bring out my unformed sentences. That's why I love all of you guys at WFC! Each of you can put thoughts into words in a way that clarify and affirm vague, nagging notions that sit unarticulated in my aging skull. Write On You Bears!
This x 1000! (it only let me "love" it once, so.....)