Boy. Let he who has never abused anyone verbally throw the first stone. Innocent until proven guilty. There are two sides to every story. We've just heard one. Before we say, "off with their heads," let the coach have her day in court and listen to her side. In the meantime, let's mourn and grieve for the women who were hurt and support them. Heteroscedasticly yours...
I don’t think anyone thinks they shouldn’t do an investigation, but if the assertions are true (I have a hard time believing all these people colluded to discredit Coach McKeever and the athletic department) I’d say Terri should retire or be fired. And I think Knowlton SHOULD meet with student athletes and their families. If he admits to the statement attributed to him, he also sounds like an asshole and should be relieved of his duties. But there may be no evidence of that; an investigation would hopefully shed some light on that.
Sadly, time for both McKeever and Knowlton to be fired IMMEDIATELY. There is enough evidence here that warrants both of them to go.
I swam for Cal in 1970. I was a scrub, but Pete Catino honored me with a letterman's jacket, which I treasure far beyond any work award (I've won a lot of these). My experience swimming under Catino is by far the best memory I have of any athletic experience. He taught me that hard work at Cal in itself is its own reward, and I graduated with Honors at Cal as I applied what Coach Catino taught me in the pool to my studies, and then in advanced degrees.
Look, I know that competitive swimming is a grind, takes mental and physical toughness every day, week, month, year. Grinding away lap after lap after lap after lap is not for the weak at heart.
These young women should have been honored by all of us at Cal - they came to Cal with the promise of athletic opportunity as well as academic excellence. They wanted what I, far below their athletic ability, experienced swimming at Cal. I cannot fathom how Knowlton could have let this atrocity continue in the face of multiple transfers, what parents tried to tell him, what these young women experienced, after they had just one year of experiencing McKeever.
That these young women have experienced something horrific in comparison to what Pete Catino did simply angers me deeply. This is not what excellence at Cal is supposed to be about. Did Pete Catino push me HARD every workout? Of course he did. Did he choose line-ups based on practice and meet times? Of course he did. Did Pete Catino EVER INSULT, DEMEAN, PERSONALLY ATTACK ME, EVER, EVEN ONCE? NO, HE DID NOT. He made me a better swimmer, a better human being, for having participated in Cal swimming.
And that's what these young women deserved to experience at Cal. For the first time in my life I am ashamed of Cal. This is a DISGRACE pure and simple.
Chancellor Carol Christ, I demand that you take immediate action to end this travesty, and restore these young women's dignity. If you do not do that, then I call for you to be fired immediately as well. This is a disgrace, an open wound, that should have nothing to do with Cal swimming.
Sounds like McKeever is on administrative leave now. (https://www.si.com/college/cal/other-sports/mckeever-on-administrative-leave) UC, being a government org and massive bureaucracy, has to do this sort of thing as an initial step. Especially true if they want to avoid a wrongful termination suit or avoid paying out her contract after firing her. Should have been handled literal years ago. I'm really quite disgusted with Knowlton.
In theory, NIL can provide us with ways to financially support our athletes without our shitty athletics administration touching it. If anyone has any good ideas about how to make this happen (via NIL or otherwise), I'm all ears.
I'm sure there is some context. Maybe these swimmers had bad attitudes. Maybe they didn't give it their best. What else is a champion making coach supposed to say? Good grief. We're raising a bunch of pussies and teaching our children to be pussies because we're telling them that some coach who took them seriously can only speak to you nicely to turn them into a champion. Okay, if the sports media and culture is going to be that way, then according to Title 9, we should go after Coach K and every other successful coach in the country. If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Swim for fun and become a data analyst in one of our coastal cities. They're talk nice to you.
I don’t say this lightly; I think you’re an asshole.
My daughter plays soccer for a top college program and works her ass off. Yet the coach yells at her and shames her in front of the team. It’s as if he’s having a bad day and takes it out on her and one or two other players. They are successful, but would be WITHOUT treating the players like shit. Coaches sometimes have their favorites and crap on others for whatever reason; being tough is fine but abusing PEOPLE is not. I challenge you to re-read your post and see if you can see how crappy it is.
From what you've written, your daughter is one special athlete and human being. She deserves nothing less that the utmost respect. Be sure to tell her each time you talk with her that you've got her back, and will support her however she decides to deal with her idiot coach. It's impossible to tell our kids "I love you, I'm proud of you, I'm here to support you" too many times. I genuinely wish her well.
wow. so what gives you the right to verbally abuse me? Because I'm an asshole? You should have taken the high road, but I see that you're just like me. Your daughter's coach is just like me and maybe she abused your daughter because....well I'll take the high road.
My “abuse” of you (it’s my opinion) is based on the stand you yourself asserted in this post. Thats entirely different than a coach abusing athletes for being black, gay, in pain, or for no understandable reason at all. You made a statement and you get to be responsible for it. I’ll take responsibility for asserting you’re an asshole (I feel pretty confident….) and you should take responsibility for the crap about “raising pussies” above. Or disown it and I’ll give you credit for introspection.
Sir, did you ever put yourself on the line, get in the pool, and compete in D1 college swimming? I think not. You don't have the slightest concept of what competing at D1 swimming requires. I posit that the ignorance you display surely means that you did not graduate from UC Berkeley. Please go away.
you're right i don't. But as a venture capitalist, I know how I spot winners. You don't coddle them. you challenge them. You yourself said that you were a scrub on the swim team. Perhaps if your coach took you seriously, he would have pushed you and motivated you more. Why didn't he? It's because he saw weakness. You were scrub then. you're probably a scrub now. I did graduate from Cal. I can prove it anyway you'd like. Meet me at top dog on bancroft, and I'll buy you a brat and and then take you out for a beer at Henry's. Go Bears!
Have you in fact read the article in question, with the quotes attributed to McKeever? There's a gigantic line between tough love coaching and pointless abuse.
Yeah. Tell that to Coach K. He has 5 basketball championships. We have none in the modern era. I see you're okay with mediocrity. I want champions and excellence.
People go through a lot worse than verbal abuse and they survived and they're stronger for it. We need strong people, not weak ones who need to be coddled.
Strength is coaching college athletes with dignity and respect. Weakness is resorting to insults and abuse. This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp HB.
See my comments below re :Pappy Waldorf. You do not need to be an asshole to effectively coach young people. You generally have to be an asshole to think homophobic comments are appropriate to teaching young people. I'm sorry that you're thinking is so ugly and twisted.
My ex-Father-in-Law both rowed and coached crew at Cal. He NEVER would have permitted anyone to demean, attack or disparage ANY athlete at Cal. He was an example of what coaching at Cal should be. BTW, his Call crews won national championships. In a way, I'm glad he has passed, because this would have wounded him deeply. But in another way, I'm sad that he is not still with us, because he would move heaven and earth to put an immediate stop to this travesty.
Well, one of my kids played three years as a starter in college football, is a HS football coach whose teams have consistently won league and section championships.
He does not demean, insult or disparage any of his players. He is regularly visited by his players as adults. Recently, while visiting my son, I met with a U.S. Marine who played for my son. Of all the people he could have spent time with on leave, he chose to spend a day with my son's family. You want tough? It doesn't get any tougher than putting your life on the line because of the values you learned playing football for my son.
No whining allowed in this family. No personal insults, demeaning name calling either.
Wow, the pot calling the kettle black. So it's not okay to verbally abuse athletes, but it's okay to verbally abuse someone who disagrees with you. Are you one of those hypocritical christians who watch porn while your wife's asleep?
Real swimmers at Cal have clearly stated what happened to them. Half of the female swimmers under McKeever are leaving Cal after just one year in the program.
I for one, will be writing a letter to the administration asking that one be made. If enough of us do the same, it will be that much more difficult for them to ignore the pressure. We saw what happened at USC. Things can change.
So every scandal has to meet the burden-of-proof of a criminal prosecution (guilty beyond a reasonable doubt) instead of a civil case (preponderance of the evidence)?
I agree that there is only a path forward for Cal and Cal athletics of a deep and transparent ownership. NO matter what this means in terms of heads falling. We have no standing if we don't stand by Fiat Lux. We can't be the Catholics or the Baptists and ignore allegations. We have to be the place where we hold ourselves and our people to a higher standard of ethics, accountability and compliance. The Bear is Dead. Long live the Bears.
These kind of stories remind of legendary Cal football coach, Pappy Waldorf who was beloved by his players. He considered himself a teacher first and a mentor. He made players feel good about themselves whether the starting quarterback or a fifth string defensive back. He rarely chewed players out and when he did he made a point after to tell them he loved them and say how much they meant to him. One would think this would be the model for all college coaches, maybe especially at a prestigious university at California. Coaching is teaching and verbally abusing players should not be a wit less abhorrent a notion than abusing students. Fire everyone involved -- the AD too, if there is cause -- and create a different culture. Now.
Knowlton did nothing with the women's soccer coach deal. While McKeever may be a bigger fish the allegations are similar ~ almost exact. So, we know Knowlton is incompetent when it comes to these matters.
There is always 2 sides to every story and Cal, due to laws, will never tell us the other side. Where there is smoke there is fire. Now 2 coaches under Knowlton have been accused of heinous behavior. All of them need to go: Knowlton, Simon-O'Neil, McKeever, and McGuire.
And if Chancellor Christ doesn't take immediate action to fix this mess, then she too needs to go. This is not what Cal, UC Berkeley, is supposed to be.
Holy moly what a rabbit hole of events. McKeever without a doubt should be canned, not even so much for the verbal stuff because that seems to have been normalized in this age but the harping and dumping on student athletes especially those who feel unwanted is embarrassing, heinous, you name it. Somehow this might look even worse for Knowlton if that was the reasoning for not taking the meeting with the parent because it shows that he helps foster that culture. Good lord what a mess. Why can't legendary coaches have the demeanor of a Gregg Popovich is beyond me.
Look...this was before Terri, but I'll never forget my freshman year at Cal in '84 when Mary T. Meagher sat down and told all the Black folks at the table that Blacks couldn't swim because our bodies couldn't float. I was done with Cal swimming after that.
I do not blame you. It sickens me to hear what you've reported. I can say, that Pete Catino, who coached swimming and waterpolo at Cal when I was there (1970-1974) would have never allowed this to happen.
Things are (slowly) changing with Reece Whitley being a leader for both Cal and USA men's swimming and Isabel Williams starring as the goalkeeper for women's water polo.
Oh they had a little party down in newport...
Sorry everyone, my account got hacked!
Boy. Let he who has never abused anyone verbally throw the first stone. Innocent until proven guilty. There are two sides to every story. We've just heard one. Before we say, "off with their heads," let the coach have her day in court and listen to her side. In the meantime, let's mourn and grieve for the women who were hurt and support them. Heteroscedasticly yours...
I don’t think anyone thinks they shouldn’t do an investigation, but if the assertions are true (I have a hard time believing all these people colluded to discredit Coach McKeever and the athletic department) I’d say Terri should retire or be fired. And I think Knowlton SHOULD meet with student athletes and their families. If he admits to the statement attributed to him, he also sounds like an asshole and should be relieved of his duties. But there may be no evidence of that; an investigation would hopefully shed some light on that.
Sadly, time for both McKeever and Knowlton to be fired IMMEDIATELY. There is enough evidence here that warrants both of them to go.
I swam for Cal in 1970. I was a scrub, but Pete Catino honored me with a letterman's jacket, which I treasure far beyond any work award (I've won a lot of these). My experience swimming under Catino is by far the best memory I have of any athletic experience. He taught me that hard work at Cal in itself is its own reward, and I graduated with Honors at Cal as I applied what Coach Catino taught me in the pool to my studies, and then in advanced degrees.
Look, I know that competitive swimming is a grind, takes mental and physical toughness every day, week, month, year. Grinding away lap after lap after lap after lap is not for the weak at heart.
These young women should have been honored by all of us at Cal - they came to Cal with the promise of athletic opportunity as well as academic excellence. They wanted what I, far below their athletic ability, experienced swimming at Cal. I cannot fathom how Knowlton could have let this atrocity continue in the face of multiple transfers, what parents tried to tell him, what these young women experienced, after they had just one year of experiencing McKeever.
That these young women have experienced something horrific in comparison to what Pete Catino did simply angers me deeply. This is not what excellence at Cal is supposed to be about. Did Pete Catino push me HARD every workout? Of course he did. Did he choose line-ups based on practice and meet times? Of course he did. Did Pete Catino EVER INSULT, DEMEAN, PERSONALLY ATTACK ME, EVER, EVEN ONCE? NO, HE DID NOT. He made me a better swimmer, a better human being, for having participated in Cal swimming.
And that's what these young women deserved to experience at Cal. For the first time in my life I am ashamed of Cal. This is a DISGRACE pure and simple.
Chancellor Carol Christ, I demand that you take immediate action to end this travesty, and restore these young women's dignity. If you do not do that, then I call for you to be fired immediately as well. This is a disgrace, an open wound, that should have nothing to do with Cal swimming.
Sounds like McKeever is on administrative leave now. (https://www.si.com/college/cal/other-sports/mckeever-on-administrative-leave) UC, being a government org and massive bureaucracy, has to do this sort of thing as an initial step. Especially true if they want to avoid a wrongful termination suit or avoid paying out her contract after firing her. Should have been handled literal years ago. I'm really quite disgusted with Knowlton.
In theory, NIL can provide us with ways to financially support our athletes without our shitty athletics administration touching it. If anyone has any good ideas about how to make this happen (via NIL or otherwise), I'm all ears.
Pretty damn awful. And multiple athletic directors allowed it to continue.
I'm sure there is some context. Maybe these swimmers had bad attitudes. Maybe they didn't give it their best. What else is a champion making coach supposed to say? Good grief. We're raising a bunch of pussies and teaching our children to be pussies because we're telling them that some coach who took them seriously can only speak to you nicely to turn them into a champion. Okay, if the sports media and culture is going to be that way, then according to Title 9, we should go after Coach K and every other successful coach in the country. If you can't take the heat, then get out of the kitchen. Swim for fun and become a data analyst in one of our coastal cities. They're talk nice to you.
I don’t say this lightly; I think you’re an asshole.
My daughter plays soccer for a top college program and works her ass off. Yet the coach yells at her and shames her in front of the team. It’s as if he’s having a bad day and takes it out on her and one or two other players. They are successful, but would be WITHOUT treating the players like shit. Coaches sometimes have their favorites and crap on others for whatever reason; being tough is fine but abusing PEOPLE is not. I challenge you to re-read your post and see if you can see how crappy it is.
From what you've written, your daughter is one special athlete and human being. She deserves nothing less that the utmost respect. Be sure to tell her each time you talk with her that you've got her back, and will support her however she decides to deal with her idiot coach. It's impossible to tell our kids "I love you, I'm proud of you, I'm here to support you" too many times. I genuinely wish her well.
Thank you! It’s definitely been a character building experience for her, but it paid off on the field and in the classroom. Cheers!
wow. so what gives you the right to verbally abuse me? Because I'm an asshole? You should have taken the high road, but I see that you're just like me. Your daughter's coach is just like me and maybe she abused your daughter because....well I'll take the high road.
You really think you're taking the high road in this thread?
Any introspection?
My “abuse” of you (it’s my opinion) is based on the stand you yourself asserted in this post. Thats entirely different than a coach abusing athletes for being black, gay, in pain, or for no understandable reason at all. You made a statement and you get to be responsible for it. I’ll take responsibility for asserting you’re an asshole (I feel pretty confident….) and you should take responsibility for the crap about “raising pussies” above. Or disown it and I’ll give you credit for introspection.
Sir, did you ever put yourself on the line, get in the pool, and compete in D1 college swimming? I think not. You don't have the slightest concept of what competing at D1 swimming requires. I posit that the ignorance you display surely means that you did not graduate from UC Berkeley. Please go away.
Agree! Thank you for putting perspective on this!
you're right i don't. But as a venture capitalist, I know how I spot winners. You don't coddle them. you challenge them. You yourself said that you were a scrub on the swim team. Perhaps if your coach took you seriously, he would have pushed you and motivated you more. Why didn't he? It's because he saw weakness. You were scrub then. you're probably a scrub now. I did graduate from Cal. I can prove it anyway you'd like. Meet me at top dog on bancroft, and I'll buy you a brat and and then take you out for a beer at Henry's. Go Bears!
Have you in fact read the article in question, with the quotes attributed to McKeever? There's a gigantic line between tough love coaching and pointless abuse.
Schwew! I'm new to the conversation but.... thank for spelling out "the line"! Coach crossed it!
What a horribly sad perspective. Imagine condoning verbal abuse and suggesting that it's an appropriate way to motivate human beings.
Yeah. Tell that to Coach K. He has 5 basketball championships. We have none in the modern era. I see you're okay with mediocrity. I want champions and excellence.
People go through a lot worse than verbal abuse and they survived and they're stronger for it. We need strong people, not weak ones who need to be coddled.
Strength is coaching college athletes with dignity and respect. Weakness is resorting to insults and abuse. This really isn't a difficult concept to grasp HB.
See my comments below re :Pappy Waldorf. You do not need to be an asshole to effectively coach young people. You generally have to be an asshole to think homophobic comments are appropriate to teaching young people. I'm sorry that you're thinking is so ugly and twisted.
My ex-Father-in-Law both rowed and coached crew at Cal. He NEVER would have permitted anyone to demean, attack or disparage ANY athlete at Cal. He was an example of what coaching at Cal should be. BTW, his Call crews won national championships. In a way, I'm glad he has passed, because this would have wounded him deeply. But in another way, I'm sad that he is not still with us, because he would move heaven and earth to put an immediate stop to this travesty.
10 bucks says your kids are whiners who haven't accomplished much. They're bruised fruits and you come to their rescue.
Well, one of my kids played three years as a starter in college football, is a HS football coach whose teams have consistently won league and section championships.
He does not demean, insult or disparage any of his players. He is regularly visited by his players as adults. Recently, while visiting my son, I met with a U.S. Marine who played for my son. Of all the people he could have spent time with on leave, he chose to spend a day with my son's family. You want tough? It doesn't get any tougher than putting your life on the line because of the values you learned playing football for my son.
No whining allowed in this family. No personal insults, demeaning name calling either.
How about you & your kids?
Thank you Bear! My swim daughter and other athletes know their strengths. Strong capable and intelligent athletes are NOT whiners!
Wow, the pot calling the kettle black. So it's not okay to verbally abuse athletes, but it's okay to verbally abuse someone who disagrees with you. Are you one of those hypocritical christians who watch porn while your wife's asleep?
I thought you believed in not being coddled. Did your feelings get hurt?
here comes the woke mob...no need to hear the other side of the story
"woke" "mob" Yup, you're certainly not one to substitute emotion for facts.
Two questions for you:
1. If what the article alleges is even half true, would you support McKeever's continued employment?
2. Do you believe that it is likely that the 20+ athletes who have stepped forward with their experiences are all lying?
That's all speculative, and I have no desire to engage in it. A thorough investigation needs to be done or at least that is the expectation.
Real swimmers at Cal have clearly stated what happened to them. Half of the female swimmers under McKeever are leaving Cal after just one year in the program.
This is well beyond the "speculation stage."
Real profile in courage here
Clearly you missed the part where Athletics refused to investigate the accusations. Who's gonna do this "thorough investigation" you're talking about?
I for one, will be writing a letter to the administration asking that one be made. If enough of us do the same, it will be that much more difficult for them to ignore the pressure. We saw what happened at USC. Things can change.
So, the Chancellor's office?
And what will be sufficient evidence to pass your "innocent until proven guilty" threshold?
I have now said what I will do. How about you ask yourself what are you going to do, other than complain? This isn't about me.
As a member of the "woke mob" (as opposed to the sleeping hordes) I'd love to hear the other side of the story. I don't know anyone who wouldn't.
...says the person calling for heads to roll in spite of there only being (at this point) mere allegations
If the allegations are true. You don't do nuance do you?
sounds like you don't do, innocent until proven guilty to me
I do. This seems to be hard for you to understand. Maybe this above your reading level.
I'm sure that last comment made you feel good, like the way Pappy made his players feel.
So every scandal has to meet the burden-of-proof of a criminal prosecution (guilty beyond a reasonable doubt) instead of a civil case (preponderance of the evidence)?
I agree that there is only a path forward for Cal and Cal athletics of a deep and transparent ownership. NO matter what this means in terms of heads falling. We have no standing if we don't stand by Fiat Lux. We can't be the Catholics or the Baptists and ignore allegations. We have to be the place where we hold ourselves and our people to a higher standard of ethics, accountability and compliance. The Bear is Dead. Long live the Bears.
These kind of stories remind of legendary Cal football coach, Pappy Waldorf who was beloved by his players. He considered himself a teacher first and a mentor. He made players feel good about themselves whether the starting quarterback or a fifth string defensive back. He rarely chewed players out and when he did he made a point after to tell them he loved them and say how much they meant to him. One would think this would be the model for all college coaches, maybe especially at a prestigious university at California. Coaching is teaching and verbally abusing players should not be a wit less abhorrent a notion than abusing students. Fire everyone involved -- the AD too, if there is cause -- and create a different culture. Now.
Knowlton did nothing with the women's soccer coach deal. While McKeever may be a bigger fish the allegations are similar ~ almost exact. So, we know Knowlton is incompetent when it comes to these matters.
There is always 2 sides to every story and Cal, due to laws, will never tell us the other side. Where there is smoke there is fire. Now 2 coaches under Knowlton have been accused of heinous behavior. All of them need to go: Knowlton, Simon-O'Neil, McKeever, and McGuire.
And if Chancellor Christ doesn't take immediate action to fix this mess, then she too needs to go. This is not what Cal, UC Berkeley, is supposed to be.
Agree, although in this case the two sides aren't she-said-she-said. They're she-said-they-all-said.
clean house. fire them all, AD and top brass of Athletics included.
McKeever aside, this is a really bad look for Knowlton.
Holy moly what a rabbit hole of events. McKeever without a doubt should be canned, not even so much for the verbal stuff because that seems to have been normalized in this age but the harping and dumping on student athletes especially those who feel unwanted is embarrassing, heinous, you name it. Somehow this might look even worse for Knowlton if that was the reasoning for not taking the meeting with the parent because it shows that he helps foster that culture. Good lord what a mess. Why can't legendary coaches have the demeanor of a Gregg Popovich is beyond me.
Look...this was before Terri, but I'll never forget my freshman year at Cal in '84 when Mary T. Meagher sat down and told all the Black folks at the table that Blacks couldn't swim because our bodies couldn't float. I was done with Cal swimming after that.
I do not blame you. It sickens me to hear what you've reported. I can say, that Pete Catino, who coached swimming and waterpolo at Cal when I was there (1970-1974) would have never allowed this to happen.
Things are (slowly) changing with Reece Whitley being a leader for both Cal and USA men's swimming and Isabel Williams starring as the goalkeeper for women's water polo.
What a fiasco indeed...