Given the amount of variance in basketball and the sheer number of non-conference games, it takes a really special level of futility to win less than 5 games a year.
Hey what do you guys think of Montgomery's comments? I respect the guy, but to put no blame on Fox...or at least insinuate that it is the academic requirements that are the crux of the problem....seems inaccurate. Obviously, the academic requirements are part of the story, but to not pin any of it on coaching/recruiting/retention??? Asking because I respect the guy, I just think the mantra about lack of institutional support is overblown.
Obviously we have the most difficult admission requirements in D1 athletics, but I thought we actually have a pretty good academic support system in place for our student athletes once they get here. But I could be wrong about that. We do need to create some grad programs to provide less restrictive opportunities to get guys from the portal. I spoke with Jack Plummer last year, and he gave a very lukewarm review of his grad program, which sounded like a made-up mish-mash, and not something with any academic or professional payoff besides keeping him eligible.
(1) Fellow coaches rarely speak ill will on other coaches.
(2) He is really saying all and everything about Fox which is: "Fox sucks". Why you may ask? Cuz Monty coached at the same institution with "academic requirements", lack of practice facility and blah blah blah. What Monty is saying is, "I was a damn good coach and succeeded at the same institution as Fox". That is to say, it is a backhand slap, which was (IMO) intended and landed by Monty (he's a wily fellow, eh?).
Nick, shocked you are any other journalist can keep writing about this team. As far as moving on, I moved on from Cal men's basketball over 2 years ago, can't stand Fox...full stop. I am half way out the door on women's basketball. Charmin has the right intention but next year will be like this year w/o the addition of several bigs and taller more athletic guards.
Knownuttin has driven Cal sports into the ground and does nothing (women's VB, no conference wins in how long?). I would luv to punch him in the face. Two years ago I wrote him an email that Fox had to go immediately and that he, Knownuttin, was an abject failure. All of which, 2 years passed, has proven correct.
Now Wilcox, whom I'm a strong supporter of, is on the hot seat with a tough schedule coming up. Hell college football is starting to fade in me rear view mirror.
Stanfurdstinks: You make an interesting point. I wish that people would do a better job of defining what they mean by "institutional support". Does this mean that athletes aren't getting the help they need to graduate or does it mean that the programs don't have all of the bells and whistles (separate practice facilities. luxury dorms, chartered flights, champagne footbaths, etc.) that any coach feels is necessary for a Power Five program? Finally, if there is any sport where academics shouldn't be a barrier to success, it's basketball. Just look at Duke, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Michigan. Hell, even Northwestern is going to make the tourney this year! And let's not forget that Monty had Stanfurd at a pretty elite level when he was there and he took us to the tourney four out of six years when he was coaching us. The onus is squarely on Knowles to get the next coaching hire right or he is gone.
Let's not put Vandy on the same level, basketball wise, as the other 3. However, the thing they did do is hire an up and comer, Stackhouse. And even then I'd say he was a stretch. Though he did coach in the G league.
I do note that basketball is a super gym rat support; a 3.3 GPA while playing basketball is an achievement. Are the other schools more wielding to their students? Yeah, GoldenBrear88..those other schools manage it, somehow.
Yeah it's the don't throw another coach under the bus refrain. Plus the announcers last night were repeating the injury excuse. You don't need more than a few highly talented players to go to the dance., Fox has not recruited well nor has he coached up the talent he has. Time to turn the page.....Let's face it recruiting in BB is way easier than football.
I'm also a big Monty fan. I think the coaching fraternity is what his comments include. They don't throw one another under busses. So I think Monty was just pointing out that there are problems beyond Fox, which is true enough.
Yeah but it would be nice if they stop BSing in vague language about what exactly the problem is. Kinda sounds like the coaches want the ability to bring in their guys as they see fit, without the filter of the Admissions Office. Wasn't there a whisper about Cuonzo being upset about who could be admitted? I could understand this sentiment: in this day and age it takes a lot of energy to recruit, facilitate endorsement, etc. Having the admissions put a filter on things makes life more difficult. This then connects the dots to his statement about forms of support for the students once they are here....and to his comment about him being old school. Maybe he is trying to say that things have changed, the student athlete (in the traditional sense) is dead, and we need to adapt or tap. Sad reality.
As somebody who worked in higher level education for 25 years I can attest that the rules can be rigid and that some universities are crippled by them while others find clever ways around. I wish we just offered a degree in athletics for the kids who don't want to fake school, but there are all of these system wide requirements for curriculum that make it difficult to fit something like that into the existing framework for degree requirements. The idea that athletes (especially if they are now going transcontinental at some schools) can complete a normal degree without serious accommodation is unrealistic. It is also an awkward situation to put students (some who are now making millions of dollars) in the classroom of a professor and expect them to have equal standards (especially about absences!!!).
I think everybody got so drunk in the argument of fairness of paying athletes too that they overlooked all of these negative repercussions that now threaten the existence of college athletics as we now it. At the least, there should have been honest discussions and then common sense rules put in place before they let the beast out.
Lars has definitely improved since he stepped foot on campus, so that’s definitely something.
But the role Mark Fox is asking him to play is way beyond his capabilities, and Fox has no clue how to best utilize the skills of the players he actually has. Now that poor Lars has to battle v 7-footers with legit skills, he’s in tough.
What interesting to me is that I hear a lot of Fox is actually good coach, but not a good recruiter. I think he's a good defensive coach, but a huge minus as a recruiter and offensive coach. Cuonzo, meanwhile, is probably an even better defensive coach and an infinitely better recruiter, but who was similarly more challenged coaching offense. Yet, I hear so much more "Cuonzo was a bad coach" and "Fox is a good coach with bad recruits". Not saying you share this view, but it's one that is super confounding to me.
I was trying to be nice about something. But yes, a lot of his defense cred is a result of the fact that he slows his offense to a perverted crawl, not because of defense fundamentals.
Wilcox probably gets 2 more years regardless of the record. We know this administration does not prioritize winning. It's like if our top rated academic departments suddenly fell off a precipice and dropped to like number 112 in the national rankings, which we would never let happen at Cal. I mean Berkeley.
Cal baseball is 6-1 so far. Who wants to join me in May at UCLA?
Mozilla.
Given the amount of variance in basketball and the sheer number of non-conference games, it takes a really special level of futility to win less than 5 games a year.
As epic of a complete and total coaching failure as I have ever seen in sports.
Hey what do you guys think of Montgomery's comments? I respect the guy, but to put no blame on Fox...or at least insinuate that it is the academic requirements that are the crux of the problem....seems inaccurate. Obviously, the academic requirements are part of the story, but to not pin any of it on coaching/recruiting/retention??? Asking because I respect the guy, I just think the mantra about lack of institutional support is overblown.
Monty and Cuonzo did just fine at the same institution.
Obviously we have the most difficult admission requirements in D1 athletics, but I thought we actually have a pretty good academic support system in place for our student athletes once they get here. But I could be wrong about that. We do need to create some grad programs to provide less restrictive opportunities to get guys from the portal. I spoke with Jack Plummer last year, and he gave a very lukewarm review of his grad program, which sounded like a made-up mish-mash, and not something with any academic or professional payoff besides keeping him eligible.
Several things at play with Monty's comments.
(1) Fellow coaches rarely speak ill will on other coaches.
(2) He is really saying all and everything about Fox which is: "Fox sucks". Why you may ask? Cuz Monty coached at the same institution with "academic requirements", lack of practice facility and blah blah blah. What Monty is saying is, "I was a damn good coach and succeeded at the same institution as Fox". That is to say, it is a backhand slap, which was (IMO) intended and landed by Monty (he's a wily fellow, eh?).
Nick, shocked you are any other journalist can keep writing about this team. As far as moving on, I moved on from Cal men's basketball over 2 years ago, can't stand Fox...full stop. I am half way out the door on women's basketball. Charmin has the right intention but next year will be like this year w/o the addition of several bigs and taller more athletic guards.
Knownuttin has driven Cal sports into the ground and does nothing (women's VB, no conference wins in how long?). I would luv to punch him in the face. Two years ago I wrote him an email that Fox had to go immediately and that he, Knownuttin, was an abject failure. All of which, 2 years passed, has proven correct.
Now Wilcox, whom I'm a strong supporter of, is on the hot seat with a tough schedule coming up. Hell college football is starting to fade in me rear view mirror.
Go Bears.
Stanfurdstinks: You make an interesting point. I wish that people would do a better job of defining what they mean by "institutional support". Does this mean that athletes aren't getting the help they need to graduate or does it mean that the programs don't have all of the bells and whistles (separate practice facilities. luxury dorms, chartered flights, champagne footbaths, etc.) that any coach feels is necessary for a Power Five program? Finally, if there is any sport where academics shouldn't be a barrier to success, it's basketball. Just look at Duke, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Michigan. Hell, even Northwestern is going to make the tourney this year! And let's not forget that Monty had Stanfurd at a pretty elite level when he was there and he took us to the tourney four out of six years when he was coaching us. The onus is squarely on Knowles to get the next coaching hire right or he is gone.
Let's not put Vandy on the same level, basketball wise, as the other 3. However, the thing they did do is hire an up and comer, Stackhouse. And even then I'd say he was a stretch. Though he did coach in the G league.
Amen Brotha.
I do note that basketball is a super gym rat support; a 3.3 GPA while playing basketball is an achievement. Are the other schools more wielding to their students? Yeah, GoldenBrear88..those other schools manage it, somehow.
Yeah it's the don't throw another coach under the bus refrain. Plus the announcers last night were repeating the injury excuse. You don't need more than a few highly talented players to go to the dance., Fox has not recruited well nor has he coached up the talent he has. Time to turn the page.....Let's face it recruiting in BB is way easier than football.
I'm also a big Monty fan. I think the coaching fraternity is what his comments include. They don't throw one another under busses. So I think Monty was just pointing out that there are problems beyond Fox, which is true enough.
Yeah but it would be nice if they stop BSing in vague language about what exactly the problem is. Kinda sounds like the coaches want the ability to bring in their guys as they see fit, without the filter of the Admissions Office. Wasn't there a whisper about Cuonzo being upset about who could be admitted? I could understand this sentiment: in this day and age it takes a lot of energy to recruit, facilitate endorsement, etc. Having the admissions put a filter on things makes life more difficult. This then connects the dots to his statement about forms of support for the students once they are here....and to his comment about him being old school. Maybe he is trying to say that things have changed, the student athlete (in the traditional sense) is dead, and we need to adapt or tap. Sad reality.
As somebody who worked in higher level education for 25 years I can attest that the rules can be rigid and that some universities are crippled by them while others find clever ways around. I wish we just offered a degree in athletics for the kids who don't want to fake school, but there are all of these system wide requirements for curriculum that make it difficult to fit something like that into the existing framework for degree requirements. The idea that athletes (especially if they are now going transcontinental at some schools) can complete a normal degree without serious accommodation is unrealistic. It is also an awkward situation to put students (some who are now making millions of dollars) in the classroom of a professor and expect them to have equal standards (especially about absences!!!).
I think everybody got so drunk in the argument of fairness of paying athletes too that they overlooked all of these negative repercussions that now threaten the existence of college athletics as we now it. At the least, there should have been honest discussions and then common sense rules put in place before they let the beast out.
Simpsons meme: Stop! Stop! He is already dead.
That’s all I could think about during this game.
Always appreciate your basketball coverage and is the sole reason I subscribe here
As the only defender of Lars it was astounding that Oregon had THREE 7-foot centers who were all substantially better
Oregon used to be athletic, talented but small
Now they are athletic, talented and huge
This was the worst game of the season, and it never once felt like we had a shot, even when it was close
Plus he’s not 100%.
Lars has definitely improved since he stepped foot on campus, so that’s definitely something.
But the role Mark Fox is asking him to play is way beyond his capabilities, and Fox has no clue how to best utilize the skills of the players he actually has. Now that poor Lars has to battle v 7-footers with legit skills, he’s in tough.
Hah. I don't know, I kind a miss watching my own team thrash an opponent. I can barely remember what that feels like.
I like to watch my team thrash an opponent that was supposed to present a challenge, but it's no fun to thrash a pathetically overmatched opponent.
But what if they are Stanford or USC?
They should die of gonnorhea and rot in hell.
Would you like a cookie?
I loved every bit of our football 66-3 win vs WSU in 2008.
There isn't a D1 coach on earth who wouldn't be "fine" (by Cal standards) if they could recruit and keep good players.
What interesting to me is that I hear a lot of Fox is actually good coach, but not a good recruiter. I think he's a good defensive coach, but a huge minus as a recruiter and offensive coach. Cuonzo, meanwhile, is probably an even better defensive coach and an infinitely better recruiter, but who was similarly more challenged coaching offense. Yet, I hear so much more "Cuonzo was a bad coach" and "Fox is a good coach with bad recruits". Not saying you share this view, but it's one that is super confounding to me.
I don't think Fox is a good defensive coach, or at least anymore. He hasn't had a single good defense at Cal in 4 years.
I was trying to be nice about something. But yes, a lot of his defense cred is a result of the fact that he slows his offense to a perverted crawl, not because of defense fundamentals.
Wilcox probably gets 2 more years regardless of the record. We know this administration does not prioritize winning. It's like if our top rated academic departments suddenly fell off a precipice and dropped to like number 112 in the national rankings, which we would never let happen at Cal. I mean Berkeley.
Trying to follow: Are you making the case that Fox is a better coach than Wilcox, just with less talent?
And the decision to extend Fox?