What am I missing here? Peeps keep saying this should be looked into and investigated. According to the article that has already happened. The "authorities" have already "handled" it. It has already been "looked into". There is no ongoing case and there will be no prosecution.
In terms of respective Universities honoring their offer to their recruits it would appear that that will be done individually by each University. I have no idea why Furd pulled their scholly for Hector, does anyone here know the reason?
Cal will presumably analyze or has analyzed their offer to their recruit from Eastside. Perhaps that process has been completed or is in progress. That said, I would think Cal would have known about this incident some time ago.
A very sad situation first and foremost for the young girl. I hope she has received all the assistance that is required from this traumatic experience.
My guess is because furd has had some recent negative press over the years in sexual assault related matters, they are trying to distance themselves from having any association with it-whether it be direct or not.
Yeah, I don’t think there is anything here that hasn’t been analyzed or reviewed by the authorities. Nor does it seem like anything was swept under the rug — in fact, it seems like pretty much everybody In the community has known about this incident since it happened two years ago. Maybe I’m just naive, but I can’t imagine the King County prosecutor’s office — which has prosecuted local professional and collegiate athletes in the past — cares whether these guys are high school football players or not.
Sad news, I hope they got the girl some help. Who bought the alcohol for the underaged girl or boys? They should be charged. It does sound like it was swept under the rug being football players with moving up to the college ranks. Stanford holds their recruits to a higher standard that other school.
Outside of the situation, what a slime ball the reporter is.
Says they’ll protect the identities of the people involved bc they were minors. Literally three paragraphs later “one of the players is committed to the university of Washington and another to California”
Based on the Seattle reporting, it seems like none of this was a big secret, so I hope somebody at Cal made a real effort to look at the information available to them in evaluating this. Just a horrible situation all around, and even if the circumstances fall short of criminal charges, there is no interpretation of anything that could have happened in that car that speaks highly with respect to the decision-making that occurred by those young men.
With that said, the idea that anybody’s identity here is being protected by the paper not using their names is a joke.
Cal does a pretty good job of vetting their prospects. They really want kids with strong character and good families behind them. While I never want to make light of a potential victim, these nefarious allegations were made some time ago and the police decided not to file any charges. We should be careful not to impugn the results of the investigation several years after the alleged incident and damage reputations of young men who were NOT charged.
Amen rug. Ill add people tend to treat teenagers decision making as adults far too often(let alone drunk 16 year olds). Im sure it was a messy situation with no clear black and white answer, so the police didnt risk making a very serious charge that wasnt fully supported, and did what they could. People are too quick to snap to full guilt or innocence on either side in this stuff, when its usually somewhere in the middle.
Hopefully the girl is doing okay at this point, and any (now older) boys involved have learned from the situation and grown mentally. Wilcox talks about character nonstop, i know him/his team wont be perfect at vetting but it seems like they would have known. And if nothing changes, which i hope it doesnt because of this, the young person in question will have some good role models at CAL to further learn from.
Im not sure what the point of that article was 2yrs later, other than to basically name people and mess with their lives/drag them in the mud...I guess there isnt enough going on in the world right now thats news worthy. Oh btw, its rugbear! I hope to see you post regularly on more cheerful articles again.
Sexual assault isn't just a 'messy situation' that a girl is 'doing okay.' It's something that will have a lifelong impact on her. And being intoxicated as a victim is not an excuse for these men to assault her.
I always enjoy the internet nonsensical reactions...I referred to it as a "messy situation" as in it wasn't a "clear cut" case and involved intoxicated teenagers (as in your information is going to not be very clear). If it was a clear cut group sexual assault, they'd have been charged (and/or convicted) 2 years ago, as they should be if true. Where did I say it wouldn't have a life long impact? I cant wish someone is doing better mentally 2 years after an alleged assault (as in they've gotten counseling-something people often dont do)? And please where did I say anything having to do with "intoxicated being an excuse to assault her"? Dont put BS words where there weren't any, especially when its a topic like this. Have a civil conversation or don't respond please.
Unfortunately, you don't get to police what I say or how I say it. Or whether or not I respond or how I respond. Your use of 'messy situation' betrays a lack of understanding the gravity of the issue of sexual assault. And the idea that being 'teenagers' or 'intoxicated' doesn't mitigate the fact that this young woman felt that she was sexually assaulted.
And it's definitely naive to believe that if it was a 'clear cut group assault' that they would have been charged and convicted. In a country where there are over 200K untested rape kits, that's not the reality.
If you don't want your words to be twisted, then you should probably make it clear that being a teenager or intoxicated doesn't create a 'messy situation.'
You're welcome to say whatever you want, its a free country. I'm also welcome to point out how pointless most of what you're saying is. You're bringing up untested rape kits, twisting my words (then blaming me for your actions), and attempting to say I have some lack of understanding about sexual assault because instead of asking me to clarify something you don't understand you'd rather go on some rant. You realize this thread (and OP) is about a single case from 2 years ago, that was not prosecuted and involves a current CAL student right? Everything you're saying has no bearing on the OP, you can go off on a tangent, attack me if you want ( I think its funny) but its not providing any input on the actual "issue" (if any) at hand as it relates to CAL football. But I guess expecting an adult to be able to speak rationally and maturely online is too much to ask. :)
Fully agree Lawrence. I dated a gal in the past who had been violently raped when she was 18 and threatened with death if she ever told anyone. It robbed her soul and she never was able to get her life together. My younger sister was gang raped with a girlfriend on a beach in France where they were camping. It has left an indelible lifelong impact on her. I actually think convicted rapists should be executed. Probably a pretty harsh thought for many people, but rapists rob a woman of everything she has and then some. The survivor may be alive but in my experience a part of them dies. However, and sadly, once and a while a Tawana Brawley comes along who harms the credibility of every real victim, and sows seeds of doubt regarding every alleged abuser. For this reason it is completely irresponsible to condemn young men for one of the most heinous crimes imaginable without a thorough investigation, and a fair trial. Absent a conviction it is unfair to continue to publicly shame these men. If you want to continue an investigation, I am all for it, but don't do it in the press. That's not justice, its a trial by public opinion with the case defined by the press. It's a hit job. Finally, I find it doubtful that the police will find more evidence now than at the time of the alleged crime. I don't know what the Seattle newspaper is trying to do, but its not right.
I didn’t read the Seattle Times article as a hit piece on either the victim or any of the boys involved. It seemed to be an accurate assessment of the fact that everybody involved has experienced real consequences as a result of what happened that night. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons to write this article, including allowing the people of King County to evaluate whether their elected and appointed officials did the right thing in declining to prosecute, to re-emphasize to the public that a decision not to prosecute is exactly that and not a commentary on the truth of the story told by any of the individuals involved, and also a reminder to everybody that (fair or not) there are real consequences for the decisions you make, even when you are drunk and 16, and even when they may not rise to the level of a criminal prosecution. The latter is the thing I will be telling my kids.
It’s also a vehicle for alumni like us to ask questions about whether or not these are the young men you want representing your university. Stanford made one decision, and Cal and UW apparently made another. I’m sure people on this board and elsewhere will agree or disagree with each of those conclusions, and it may impact decisions like whether to write a check to the school or even watch the games. It doesn’t seem like an unfair topic of discussion. I recognize that asking those type of questions exacerbates the consequences to all involved, but whether you view that as an issue probably depends on what your answer to the question is. But it’s nearly impossible to imagine a circumstance where you can ask those questions in a meaningful way that doesn’t involve identifying the people.
"It’s also a vehicle for alumni like us to ask questions about whether or not these are the young men you want representing your university." Your words Coyote. So in fact this article has left you with an opinion that these young men should be judged even though they have never been charged with a crime. This is exactly my point. Absent any charges and trial and conviction, these men are presumed innocent. If the article becomes a trial through public opinion that in any way damages or sullies their reputations, then its wrong, irrespective of how we may feel about the alleged victim. I understand emotion may erode our logic in a case like this, but if we don't hold to a standard, there will be no standard, and the loudest voice in the press will be able to destroy people at their whim. That is a dangerous place
Many of us have dated women or have had friends/family who've been victims of sexual crime, it sticks with you to see its impact on a person you care about (whether it be a man or woman who was victimized). It rewires the brain when it happens, impacting a lot of decisions throughout life which I wont go into on here. But its a profound change, and really people who've had such experiences do need years (or lifelong) support to live/think more "normally". So as I said above, hopefully this person has sought help since then in her own case.
Having said that, it's irresponsible to blindly defend everyone who does say "x" happened. Its a shame there are people who lie about serious things like rape, but just look at the Kavanaugh hearings-you had a woman (or more than one?) so mad that he might get sworn in they fabricated a story about being raped in a car (later admitted it was a lie when the court came calling) just to sabotage him. Most people aren't that irresponsible, but because there are those people we owe those accused due process, because the ramifications of being labeled a "rapist" are thought of as many to be worse than a murderer. And thats not something to take lightly.
Obviously it should be looked into. I have mixed feelings, though. On the one hand, our culture as a program can’t make this thing acceptable. On the other hand, there may be good reasons why he wasn’t charged. I think universities often bungle the prospect of serving as their own criminal justice system, particularly in cases like this.
If no other shoe drops I guess I have to trust Wilcox to make the right call one way or the other.
Universities don't serve as their "own criminal justice system." The most a school can do is not admit a student. That's not criminal, and just as a school can reject someone for all sorts of things that aren't criminal (for example, plagiarizing is generally unethical and wrong but almost never criminal) it can reject a student on a lesser degree of proof for things like a lack of good judgment around sexual issues or their potential to violate Title IX.
None of this is a judgment as to what should happen in this particular case, but simply to note that if schools were limited to criminal justice standards a whole lot of issues that academic communities take as givens would not be a basis for suspension or expulsion from academic institutions.
I believe in second chances. If convicted of a heinous crime then that comes after prison. I’ve often thought that kids in situations like this (made a serious mistake in HS, whether of THIS magnitude or some lesser crime) come to college AS that second chance, and have to know they don’t get a third chance here. One small slip up on something detrimental to the team or to other students, that wouldn’t necessarily get another kid booted as a “first offense”, and they’re out of football and lose the scholly. As I said above, in Wilcox I trust......
The story is sensitive and includes serious allegations. We ask that comments be sensitive to all involved, including the alleged victim and her account of the evening and the alleged suspects. We also ask that our readers not speculate about the alleged suspects' identities.
Just a reminder to all in the conversation about the sensitive topic. Please read over your comments before publishing. we will be monitoring the comments for any violations of our community guidelines.
What am I missing here? Peeps keep saying this should be looked into and investigated. According to the article that has already happened. The "authorities" have already "handled" it. It has already been "looked into". There is no ongoing case and there will be no prosecution.
In terms of respective Universities honoring their offer to their recruits it would appear that that will be done individually by each University. I have no idea why Furd pulled their scholly for Hector, does anyone here know the reason?
Cal will presumably analyze or has analyzed their offer to their recruit from Eastside. Perhaps that process has been completed or is in progress. That said, I would think Cal would have known about this incident some time ago.
A very sad situation first and foremost for the young girl. I hope she has received all the assistance that is required from this traumatic experience.
My guess is because furd has had some recent negative press over the years in sexual assault related matters, they are trying to distance themselves from having any association with it-whether it be direct or not.
Yeah, I don’t think there is anything here that hasn’t been analyzed or reviewed by the authorities. Nor does it seem like anything was swept under the rug — in fact, it seems like pretty much everybody In the community has known about this incident since it happened two years ago. Maybe I’m just naive, but I can’t imagine the King County prosecutor’s office — which has prosecuted local professional and collegiate athletes in the past — cares whether these guys are high school football players or not.
Sad news all around and I hope the authorities handle it with the seriousness it deserves.
Sad news, I hope they got the girl some help. Who bought the alcohol for the underaged girl or boys? They should be charged. It does sound like it was swept under the rug being football players with moving up to the college ranks. Stanford holds their recruits to a higher standard that other school.
Ouch. All the way around, ouch..... So sorry to hear of it for all involved. In Wilcox I trust re: how to handle the recruit angle.......
Outside of the situation, what a slime ball the reporter is.
Says they’ll protect the identities of the people involved bc they were minors. Literally three paragraphs later “one of the players is committed to the university of Washington and another to California”
Seriously. How many kids at that HS are committed to play football at Cal. Ridiculous
Based on the Seattle reporting, it seems like none of this was a big secret, so I hope somebody at Cal made a real effort to look at the information available to them in evaluating this. Just a horrible situation all around, and even if the circumstances fall short of criminal charges, there is no interpretation of anything that could have happened in that car that speaks highly with respect to the decision-making that occurred by those young men.
With that said, the idea that anybody’s identity here is being protected by the paper not using their names is a joke.
What else about this whole this is crazy is that everyone involved stayed on the team at Eastside
Cal does a pretty good job of vetting their prospects. They really want kids with strong character and good families behind them. While I never want to make light of a potential victim, these nefarious allegations were made some time ago and the police decided not to file any charges. We should be careful not to impugn the results of the investigation several years after the alleged incident and damage reputations of young men who were NOT charged.
Amen rug. Ill add people tend to treat teenagers decision making as adults far too often(let alone drunk 16 year olds). Im sure it was a messy situation with no clear black and white answer, so the police didnt risk making a very serious charge that wasnt fully supported, and did what they could. People are too quick to snap to full guilt or innocence on either side in this stuff, when its usually somewhere in the middle.
Hopefully the girl is doing okay at this point, and any (now older) boys involved have learned from the situation and grown mentally. Wilcox talks about character nonstop, i know him/his team wont be perfect at vetting but it seems like they would have known. And if nothing changes, which i hope it doesnt because of this, the young person in question will have some good role models at CAL to further learn from.
Im not sure what the point of that article was 2yrs later, other than to basically name people and mess with their lives/drag them in the mud...I guess there isnt enough going on in the world right now thats news worthy. Oh btw, its rugbear! I hope to see you post regularly on more cheerful articles again.
Sexual assault isn't just a 'messy situation' that a girl is 'doing okay.' It's something that will have a lifelong impact on her. And being intoxicated as a victim is not an excuse for these men to assault her.
I always enjoy the internet nonsensical reactions...I referred to it as a "messy situation" as in it wasn't a "clear cut" case and involved intoxicated teenagers (as in your information is going to not be very clear). If it was a clear cut group sexual assault, they'd have been charged (and/or convicted) 2 years ago, as they should be if true. Where did I say it wouldn't have a life long impact? I cant wish someone is doing better mentally 2 years after an alleged assault (as in they've gotten counseling-something people often dont do)? And please where did I say anything having to do with "intoxicated being an excuse to assault her"? Dont put BS words where there weren't any, especially when its a topic like this. Have a civil conversation or don't respond please.
Unfortunately, you don't get to police what I say or how I say it. Or whether or not I respond or how I respond. Your use of 'messy situation' betrays a lack of understanding the gravity of the issue of sexual assault. And the idea that being 'teenagers' or 'intoxicated' doesn't mitigate the fact that this young woman felt that she was sexually assaulted.
And it's definitely naive to believe that if it was a 'clear cut group assault' that they would have been charged and convicted. In a country where there are over 200K untested rape kits, that's not the reality.
If you don't want your words to be twisted, then you should probably make it clear that being a teenager or intoxicated doesn't create a 'messy situation.'
You're welcome to say whatever you want, its a free country. I'm also welcome to point out how pointless most of what you're saying is. You're bringing up untested rape kits, twisting my words (then blaming me for your actions), and attempting to say I have some lack of understanding about sexual assault because instead of asking me to clarify something you don't understand you'd rather go on some rant. You realize this thread (and OP) is about a single case from 2 years ago, that was not prosecuted and involves a current CAL student right? Everything you're saying has no bearing on the OP, you can go off on a tangent, attack me if you want ( I think its funny) but its not providing any input on the actual "issue" (if any) at hand as it relates to CAL football. But I guess expecting an adult to be able to speak rationally and maturely online is too much to ask. :)
Fully agree Lawrence. I dated a gal in the past who had been violently raped when she was 18 and threatened with death if she ever told anyone. It robbed her soul and she never was able to get her life together. My younger sister was gang raped with a girlfriend on a beach in France where they were camping. It has left an indelible lifelong impact on her. I actually think convicted rapists should be executed. Probably a pretty harsh thought for many people, but rapists rob a woman of everything she has and then some. The survivor may be alive but in my experience a part of them dies. However, and sadly, once and a while a Tawana Brawley comes along who harms the credibility of every real victim, and sows seeds of doubt regarding every alleged abuser. For this reason it is completely irresponsible to condemn young men for one of the most heinous crimes imaginable without a thorough investigation, and a fair trial. Absent a conviction it is unfair to continue to publicly shame these men. If you want to continue an investigation, I am all for it, but don't do it in the press. That's not justice, its a trial by public opinion with the case defined by the press. It's a hit job. Finally, I find it doubtful that the police will find more evidence now than at the time of the alleged crime. I don't know what the Seattle newspaper is trying to do, but its not right.
I didn’t read the Seattle Times article as a hit piece on either the victim or any of the boys involved. It seemed to be an accurate assessment of the fact that everybody involved has experienced real consequences as a result of what happened that night. There are all sorts of legitimate reasons to write this article, including allowing the people of King County to evaluate whether their elected and appointed officials did the right thing in declining to prosecute, to re-emphasize to the public that a decision not to prosecute is exactly that and not a commentary on the truth of the story told by any of the individuals involved, and also a reminder to everybody that (fair or not) there are real consequences for the decisions you make, even when you are drunk and 16, and even when they may not rise to the level of a criminal prosecution. The latter is the thing I will be telling my kids.
It’s also a vehicle for alumni like us to ask questions about whether or not these are the young men you want representing your university. Stanford made one decision, and Cal and UW apparently made another. I’m sure people on this board and elsewhere will agree or disagree with each of those conclusions, and it may impact decisions like whether to write a check to the school or even watch the games. It doesn’t seem like an unfair topic of discussion. I recognize that asking those type of questions exacerbates the consequences to all involved, but whether you view that as an issue probably depends on what your answer to the question is. But it’s nearly impossible to imagine a circumstance where you can ask those questions in a meaningful way that doesn’t involve identifying the people.
"It’s also a vehicle for alumni like us to ask questions about whether or not these are the young men you want representing your university." Your words Coyote. So in fact this article has left you with an opinion that these young men should be judged even though they have never been charged with a crime. This is exactly my point. Absent any charges and trial and conviction, these men are presumed innocent. If the article becomes a trial through public opinion that in any way damages or sullies their reputations, then its wrong, irrespective of how we may feel about the alleged victim. I understand emotion may erode our logic in a case like this, but if we don't hold to a standard, there will be no standard, and the loudest voice in the press will be able to destroy people at their whim. That is a dangerous place
Many of us have dated women or have had friends/family who've been victims of sexual crime, it sticks with you to see its impact on a person you care about (whether it be a man or woman who was victimized). It rewires the brain when it happens, impacting a lot of decisions throughout life which I wont go into on here. But its a profound change, and really people who've had such experiences do need years (or lifelong) support to live/think more "normally". So as I said above, hopefully this person has sought help since then in her own case.
Having said that, it's irresponsible to blindly defend everyone who does say "x" happened. Its a shame there are people who lie about serious things like rape, but just look at the Kavanaugh hearings-you had a woman (or more than one?) so mad that he might get sworn in they fabricated a story about being raped in a car (later admitted it was a lie when the court came calling) just to sabotage him. Most people aren't that irresponsible, but because there are those people we owe those accused due process, because the ramifications of being labeled a "rapist" are thought of as many to be worse than a murderer. And thats not something to take lightly.
I guess I was a little hasty in my comment a few days ago....
Yeah, I guess those of us in glass houses....
Obviously it should be looked into. I have mixed feelings, though. On the one hand, our culture as a program can’t make this thing acceptable. On the other hand, there may be good reasons why he wasn’t charged. I think universities often bungle the prospect of serving as their own criminal justice system, particularly in cases like this.
If no other shoe drops I guess I have to trust Wilcox to make the right call one way or the other.
Universities don't serve as their "own criminal justice system." The most a school can do is not admit a student. That's not criminal, and just as a school can reject someone for all sorts of things that aren't criminal (for example, plagiarizing is generally unethical and wrong but almost never criminal) it can reject a student on a lesser degree of proof for things like a lack of good judgment around sexual issues or their potential to violate Title IX.
None of this is a judgment as to what should happen in this particular case, but simply to note that if schools were limited to criminal justice standards a whole lot of issues that academic communities take as givens would not be a basis for suspension or expulsion from academic institutions.
I believe in second chances. If convicted of a heinous crime then that comes after prison. I’ve often thought that kids in situations like this (made a serious mistake in HS, whether of THIS magnitude or some lesser crime) come to college AS that second chance, and have to know they don’t get a third chance here. One small slip up on something detrimental to the team or to other students, that wouldn’t necessarily get another kid booted as a “first offense”, and they’re out of football and lose the scholly. As I said above, in Wilcox I trust......
My first thought when reading the story was that of Brenda Tracy.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/2014/11/canzano_her_name_is_brenda_tra.html
If you read the story, there's a passing Cal connection, although not with anything directly involving our football program...
The story is sensitive and includes serious allegations. We ask that comments be sensitive to all involved, including the alleged victim and her account of the evening and the alleged suspects. We also ask that our readers not speculate about the alleged suspects' identities.
Just a reminder to all in the conversation about the sensitive topic. Please read over your comments before publishing. we will be monitoring the comments for any violations of our community guidelines.