I’m torn. We can’t compete with the USC/Oregon/Utah’s now. Adding Ohio state/Michigan/Penn State is only going to make us more irrelevant as a program. Great for the money and exposure, but I feel like we are about to cement ourselves as the Vanderbilt of the Big 10 for money. At least in a modified PAC 12 we would have had a shot to build our brand.
FWIW, Cal has a winning record against B1G programs over the last 20-25 years. I don't think we'd be doing any better or worse than we did in the Pac, all else being equal.
Just remember that you don't play Ohio State or Michigan every week. There are plenty of Rutgers, Illinois, Northwestern type opponents too.
Tarnishing? We'd raise the academic standards of the Big conference in one fell swoop. Cal and Stanford are together the two greatest academic and athletic institutions in the West, all considered. I took the bait here!
I cannot stress enough how little the twitter (or X? w/e the fluff they call it now) contingent of B1G football fans replying to the expansion threads seem to care about academics.
Athletically the biggest draws are women’s sports and Olympic sports. Big10 is very behind on those vs sec (with the addition of OU UT). Revenue generating sports, not so much
Don't know where you are getting your information, but the Big 10 alumni chapters in the SF area are weighing in for Cal and they aren't the only ones. The chapters count far more than some random twitter remark.
I can't imagine why I'd be against this if I were a FAN of a B1G school. More chances to visit California and have games on TV there and adding some conference members who are unlikely to be major competitive threats (at least from their perspective)? And they add more academic prestige to the league? What's the problem?
I get why the TV networks would be less excited. But the fans? Once USC and UCLA are there, why not?
And not sure why they have the impression that UCLA is so much athletically superior than Cal and Stanford. Certainly, UCLA has a historic basketball program, but football has never consistently been at the top of the Pac. We certainly have more higher profile players in the NFL.
“In an unexpected move B1G presidents voted today to accept applications for not only UO and UW, but also Stanford, OSU and WSU. Meanwhile the Patriot League has accepted Cal’s application, with AD Jim Knowlton noting ‘this is a great opportunity for this great university to be part of a renowned conference for the rest of history’. Cal games can viewed with a download code from Cal Athletics 24 hours after games conclude on weekdays, not accounting for administrative holidays.”
“In related news, Cal got it’s first one-star commit of the recruiting cycle today in Spencer Stapleton out of nearby College Prep HS. Though Stapleton has no football experience, the rising junior has two years of varsity Lacrosse and Cross Country under his belt, and has earned roles in several dramatic productions at the school, including Annie and Othello. Stapleton indicated his major reason for attending Cal is that he still has $120 on his Clipper card that he hopes to use.”
My guess is it would depend on what share we could enter with. If it's like the recent additions (before LA schools), share started around 50% and was phase in to full over 6 years. I could see UCLA having to make Cal whole to the current Pac level during a phase-in time.
Cal isn't getting anything from uc lo$ angele$ even if the Pac<12 ends up a smoldering crater. I'll eat my commemorative joe roth game yellow hat if Cal ever sees any $ from the southern branch.
I understand the frustration with the recent on the field and court success, but the fair weather fandom in recent years could really bite us in the butt.
If we need the 4 corner schools to leave for our B1G door to open, I will Uncle Phil toss them like they were Jazzy Jeff.
B1G is acting coy but I'm pretty confident they'll take all four schools if the Pac collapses. They knew what they were doing when they took the LA schools.
I don't think the B1G even needs to have the Pac-XX collapse. Because of the timing of this latest development, it seems apparent to me that the B1G was waiting for the Pac-XX media rights package to be made public. That way, the B1G would know the price of getting UO, UW, Cal, and Stanf*rd to join the B1G and whether or not that prices would be affordable.
I think both things are true because it's exactly about determining the market rate, as you said. The major determinants are the Big12 rate, the PAC rate, and the B1G/Fox rate. Seeing how the schools react to each option will set the prices.
If I were any of the 4 corner schools, I'd take the sure thing the Big 12 is offering. The B1G deal yearly payout is going to go up annually and even a partial share should buy any Pac team at this point but they can low-ball potential members if there is a collapse.
Reporting yesterday said Cal and Furd as 19 and 20 in Big Ten. Big 12 is getting UA and looking at other schools, including a small chance at UO.
My money is still on UA, ASU, Utah to Big 12. UO, UW to Big Ten at somewhere around 2/3 share with path to full, Cal and Furd to Big Ten with maybe half share with path to full.
The 4 corner schools to the Big XII seems very close to being a done deal. The B1G absorbing Cal, Stanf*rd, UO and UW? Still being worked out but a stronger possibility, I think, than it was 24 to 36 hours ago.
Fox doesn’t call all the shots even though it may seem that way. The faculties want the links to Cal and Stanford to add prestige to the Big 10 Academic Alliance. Research funding brings in much more revenue than sports do. They put pressure on their leadership who usually shares their views. Fox and the Big 10 usually can reach mutually beneficial agreements.
Fox absolutely calls the shots. Literally every single move in the last two years has been due to media companies using money to entice schools to give up hundred year old traditions
Not a fan of this, but I hate the alternatives even more. I guess that comes from being old. Could lead to some nice trash talking with my nephew who went to and is a big Iowa fan.
Bring in all the traditional PAC schools to the Big 10 , tell AZ, ASU and Utah to pound sand, create east and west divisions in the new superconference, and play the championship game in Pasadena on Jan 1.
I actually like Utah the most out of the expansions. UA/ASU were fine, but never felt like they truly belonged. CU was a mistake. Utah, as much as they're opposites of the rest of us, seemed to embrace the Pac more and really thrived with us.
The B1G don't want Cal. Cal can keep fooling themselves. UCLA shouldn't have to pay Cal anything either. The B1G is only interested in Oregon, Washington and maybe Utah. No other Pac 12 team brings anything to the B1G.
Apparently this "Married Christian Ohio State Buckeyes fan" knows more about the thinking of B1G leadership than the Athletic journalist that published the linked article
Not sure if you guys know this or not, but the B1G ten fans are mostly arrogant a$$holes. Used to kind of pull for the Wolverines (for being a Calish kind of public school) until I interacted with their fans. Not even a decade of humble pie helped. And the Scarlet Tampons^^^ are even worse (and a lot dumber too).
Basically all the Pac schools suck monkey balls except USC & UCLA. I d g a shat what pac fans think. The journalist who wrote that article don't know squat. The B1G may want 2 more Pac teams, not Cal though, trust me, Cal blows big chunks....The B1G wants some ACC teams and Notre Dame more than any of the PAC teams left. The ones I mentioned in my earlier comment are the only ones worth anything. The leftovers are destined for the Big 12 or the Mountain West. Cal, Stanford, Oregon State and Washington State all belong in the Mountain West with similar quality teams like San Jose State, Wyoming and New Mexico. As far as Michigan and Ohio State goes, either team would TOTALLY DEMOLISH MOST OF WHAT LEFT IN THE DYING PAC. CAL is the worst team in the Pac 12 with that stupid governor in California trying to butt in into something that was really none of his business as far UCLA leaving for the best conference in FBS along with the SEC. PAC is a garbage league on its way out of FBS 🏈.
I disagree with the scenario, but also disagree with you statement. We'd have a hefty revenue advantage over everyone else, which would build over time. We'd have Big 12 money in a MWC-like conference.
UCLA and USC kids will be flying to the Midwest every other week. My kid goes to a B1G school and the novelty of trips to the Midwest wears out fast. A easy flight up to the Bay Area and road trips to the PNW with a clear path the the playoff can be a major selling point to CA kids if done right.
Our games against the PNW schools have been tight (within 2 scores) lately.
OU: 3 of the last 4 years
OSU: 3 of 4
UW: 4 of 4
I don’t see how we aren’t in the discussion to win the PAC-8/10 every year.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t take the B1G money if offered but if not, we can still find ourselves in a pretty good spot.
I think the idea behind "gobbling up California recruits whose parents want to keep their games in California" is: if you go to Cal your away games are a lot closer (on the west coast + AZ + Utah) than if go to Ucla or USC (flights to the midwest every other weekend, most with a layover or 2).
The thing is, those recruits who we'll be "gobbling up" are gonna be offered NIL deals worth 6 figures more than what we can offer with our minuscule TV/Conference share revenue in the Pac 8 and their massive deal in the Big 10. The money and donor loyalty battle that we are already badly losing to the LA schools will widen even further if we don't get into the Big 10. And in the age of NIL, that is not a good thing for recruiting
TV money and NIL money are separate though, right? Schools received the TV money and explicitly cannot pay the NIL deals.
I don't disagree that we should want into the B1G. But exactly where the money goes and why it matters has always seemed a little under-explained to me.
Please baby Oski, in your little golden diapers make this happen!
I’m torn. We can’t compete with the USC/Oregon/Utah’s now. Adding Ohio state/Michigan/Penn State is only going to make us more irrelevant as a program. Great for the money and exposure, but I feel like we are about to cement ourselves as the Vanderbilt of the Big 10 for money. At least in a modified PAC 12 we would have had a shot to build our brand.
FWIW, Cal has a winning record against B1G programs over the last 20-25 years. I don't think we'd be doing any better or worse than we did in the Pac, all else being equal.
Just remember that you don't play Ohio State or Michigan every week. There are plenty of Rutgers, Illinois, Northwestern type opponents too.
Please save us from ourselves
Big 10 fans on Twitter are losing their minds at the thought of Cal and Furd tarnishing their conference... How myopic
Tarnishing? We'd raise the academic standards of the Big conference in one fell swoop. Cal and Stanford are together the two greatest academic and athletic institutions in the West, all considered. I took the bait here!
I cannot stress enough how little the twitter (or X? w/e the fluff they call it now) contingent of B1G football fans replying to the expansion threads seem to care about academics.
Athletically the biggest draws are women’s sports and Olympic sports. Big10 is very behind on those vs sec (with the addition of OU UT). Revenue generating sports, not so much
Don't know where you are getting your information, but the Big 10 alumni chapters in the SF area are weighing in for Cal and they aren't the only ones. The chapters count far more than some random twitter remark.
He's looking at Reddit. r/cfb is basically a bunch of people who think football wins are the only metric of athletic success and thus don't want Cal.
I can't imagine why I'd be against this if I were a FAN of a B1G school. More chances to visit California and have games on TV there and adding some conference members who are unlikely to be major competitive threats (at least from their perspective)? And they add more academic prestige to the league? What's the problem?
I get why the TV networks would be less excited. But the fans? Once USC and UCLA are there, why not?
And not sure why they have the impression that UCLA is so much athletically superior than Cal and Stanford. Certainly, UCLA has a historic basketball program, but football has never consistently been at the top of the Pac. We certainly have more higher profile players in the NFL.
As you can see from that OSU dude, they only think about football and nothing else
Ignorance, probably.
Some fans seem to be butthurt at the prospect of their favorite team getting less money.
But honestly, the most common POV I'm seeing is just shitting on Cal and Furd's football prowess.
I don't even think they'd be getting less money. Any arrangement to bring in new schools would have to keep the existing ones whole.
They are afraid of what will happen if some athletes actually graduate. The increase in average GPA can be very frightening.
May this come to pass and may Jim Knowlton resign as well, so be it
Please please please in the name of God and everything that is holy let this happen
Is Big 10 here yet?
This would obviously be the best option for us, but man this would eff OSU and Wazzu. I wonder if there can be a Big 12 future for them as well?
Let's worry about Cal first before we worry about them
“In an unexpected move B1G presidents voted today to accept applications for not only UO and UW, but also Stanford, OSU and WSU. Meanwhile the Patriot League has accepted Cal’s application, with AD Jim Knowlton noting ‘this is a great opportunity for this great university to be part of a renowned conference for the rest of history’. Cal games can viewed with a download code from Cal Athletics 24 hours after games conclude on weekdays, not accounting for administrative holidays.”
This comment is not getting the love it deserves. This is really exceptional!
“In related news, Cal got it’s first one-star commit of the recruiting cycle today in Spencer Stapleton out of nearby College Prep HS. Though Stapleton has no football experience, the rising junior has two years of varsity Lacrosse and Cross Country under his belt, and has earned roles in several dramatic productions at the school, including Annie and Othello. Stapleton indicated his major reason for attending Cal is that he still has $120 on his Clipper card that he hopes to use.”
Think of all the BART tickets $120 can buy.
Like 6 maybe. Just enough for home games. Classes be damned.
I'm all for a Cal/Delaware matchup! Bring it on!
It would be a tough sell. The powers in those states may need to do the alimony thing from their bigger brethren to grease the runway.
But wouldCal still get its $10m from UCLA?
I think Calimony goes away if Cal's media rights share (in whatever conference) is equal or similar to UCLA's.
provisionally yes
My guess is it would depend on what share we could enter with. If it's like the recent additions (before LA schools), share started around 50% and was phase in to full over 6 years. I could see UCLA having to make Cal whole to the current Pac level during a phase-in time.
UCLA gets immediate full share, I believe.
Cal isn't getting anything from uc lo$ angele$ even if the Pac<12 ends up a smoldering crater. I'll eat my commemorative joe roth game yellow hat if Cal ever sees any $ from the southern branch.
Are you sure? I thought they are paying us.
they are supposed to. whether they do and what's enforced is another
the regents and their committees will dither and put off any decision until the heat death of the universe.
There was no contractual obligation. It was just a throwaway line in the meeting minutes without any further details or follow-up
Yes
Would Cal get anything from UCLA in any circumstance?
I would say potentially yes but who knows how that works if we are in the same conference again.
I understand the frustration with the recent on the field and court success, but the fair weather fandom in recent years could really bite us in the butt.
I also think the B1G has an ethical obligation to help clean up this mess, but not like ethics mean anything anymore.
Just merge the two leagues. Call it the Big Pac (all gay jokes aside.....)
Biggie vs Pac divisions
If we need the 4 corner schools to leave for our B1G door to open, I will Uncle Phil toss them like they were Jazzy Jeff.
B1G is acting coy but I'm pretty confident they'll take all four schools if the Pac collapses. They knew what they were doing when they took the LA schools.
I don't think the B1G even needs to have the Pac-XX collapse. Because of the timing of this latest development, it seems apparent to me that the B1G was waiting for the Pac-XX media rights package to be made public. That way, the B1G would know the price of getting UO, UW, Cal, and Stanf*rd to join the B1G and whether or not that prices would be affordable.
I think both things are true because it's exactly about determining the market rate, as you said. The major determinants are the Big12 rate, the PAC rate, and the B1G/Fox rate. Seeing how the schools react to each option will set the prices.
If I were any of the 4 corner schools, I'd take the sure thing the Big 12 is offering. The B1G deal yearly payout is going to go up annually and even a partial share should buy any Pac team at this point but they can low-ball potential members if there is a collapse.
Wait, what is Big 12 offering us?
I don't think there's any mutual interest between Cal and Big 12.
I thought it was talking about 4 schools as in Oregon Washington Cal Stanford, but i realized it was the southwest schools
Reporting yesterday said Cal and Furd as 19 and 20 in Big Ten. Big 12 is getting UA and looking at other schools, including a small chance at UO.
My money is still on UA, ASU, Utah to Big 12. UO, UW to Big Ten at somewhere around 2/3 share with path to full, Cal and Furd to Big Ten with maybe half share with path to full.
The 4 corner schools to the Big XII seems very close to being a done deal. The B1G absorbing Cal, Stanf*rd, UO and UW? Still being worked out but a stronger possibility, I think, than it was 24 to 36 hours ago.
If Fox is driving the action, it'd be UW & UO only. If the presidents are, then Cal & Stanford are possibilities.
Fox doesn’t call all the shots even though it may seem that way. The faculties want the links to Cal and Stanford to add prestige to the Big 10 Academic Alliance. Research funding brings in much more revenue than sports do. They put pressure on their leadership who usually shares their views. Fox and the Big 10 usually can reach mutually beneficial agreements.
By the way, the alumni of the Big 10 schools have been actively supporting the addition of all four schools.
I'm not Big 10 alum but I fully support this move.
I'm also not sure Fox will need its arm twisted to get more west coast games on the slate, and to add the large Bay Area market to the footprint.
Fox absolutely calls the shots. Literally every single move in the last two years has been due to media companies using money to entice schools to give up hundred year old traditions
I think that's true. I think they can get Fox to do it, though.
So much for that….what happens now? Mountain West?
This sucks so bad.
We went from no hope, to maybe hope, to back to no hope.
Not a fan of this, but I hate the alternatives even more. I guess that comes from being old. Could lead to some nice trash talking with my nephew who went to and is a big Iowa fan.
Bring in all the traditional PAC schools to the Big 10 , tell AZ, ASU and Utah to pound sand, create east and west divisions in the new superconference, and play the championship game in Pasadena on Jan 1.
I actually like Utah the most out of the expansions. UA/ASU were fine, but never felt like they truly belonged. CU was a mistake. Utah, as much as they're opposites of the rest of us, seemed to embrace the Pac more and really thrived with us.
Come on man. Playing the Arizona schools in the old round robin was great. Lots of B students from SoCal go to Arizona.
The B1G don't want Cal. Cal can keep fooling themselves. UCLA shouldn't have to pay Cal anything either. The B1G is only interested in Oregon, Washington and maybe Utah. No other Pac 12 team brings anything to the B1G.
Apparently this "Married Christian Ohio State Buckeyes fan" knows more about the thinking of B1G leadership than the Athletic journalist that published the linked article
Not sure if you guys know this or not, but the B1G ten fans are mostly arrogant a$$holes. Used to kind of pull for the Wolverines (for being a Calish kind of public school) until I interacted with their fans. Not even a decade of humble pie helped. And the Scarlet Tampons^^^ are even worse (and a lot dumber too).
Basically all the Pac schools suck monkey balls except USC & UCLA. I d g a shat what pac fans think. The journalist who wrote that article don't know squat. The B1G may want 2 more Pac teams, not Cal though, trust me, Cal blows big chunks....The B1G wants some ACC teams and Notre Dame more than any of the PAC teams left. The ones I mentioned in my earlier comment are the only ones worth anything. The leftovers are destined for the Big 12 or the Mountain West. Cal, Stanford, Oregon State and Washington State all belong in the Mountain West with similar quality teams like San Jose State, Wyoming and New Mexico. As far as Michigan and Ohio State goes, either team would TOTALLY DEMOLISH MOST OF WHAT LEFT IN THE DYING PAC. CAL is the worst team in the Pac 12 with that stupid governor in California trying to butt in into something that was really none of his business as far UCLA leaving for the best conference in FBS along with the SEC. PAC is a garbage league on its way out of FBS 🏈.
You're a "fan" and your writing clearly indicates that you didn't attend/graduate OSU. Also, one would certainly not have made such an ignoramus rant.
Probably a t-shirt fan.
Reminds me of National Geographic:
"Here we see the native Ohio State fan, roaming in the wild."
Don't get too close people, they bite with the five or six teeth they have left.
Man you really spend your life doing this? Your wife must be miserable.
Oh, I'm sorry if my comments were not of a Christian attitude. Lol....GOD BLESS the B1G.
Gonna pray for your teeth and A1C.
Listened to Dan Wetzel's podcast. He make a compelling case to keep the PAC small.
He didn't get into Cal's situation but using his logic:
- Keep the PAC to 8 to 10 for the next 5ish years.
- Spend the next 5 years gobbling up California recruits whose parents want to keep their games in California
- Win the watered-down league (right now, the only major hurdles are Oregon & Utah)
- Ride the PAC's automatic bid to the college football playoff
- Build brand value (and revenue) thru winning a watered-own league while collecting payments from UCLA
- Bask in the glory (and revenue) as in the Tedford years
Thoughts? Any chance staying together as a small conference could be better for Cal?
We are gonna get killed in the Pac 8, so might as well get killed in Big 10.
You make a compelling case not to listen to Dan Wetzel's podcast. :)
Yeah…. Ucla and USC are still in California last I checked which will make it tough to get California recruits.
Oregon, UDub, and Oregons St are miles ahead of Cal football wise right now.
This seems like a sure fire way to finish 3rd in a watered down conference in order to be banished to the Big West.
I disagree with the scenario, but also disagree with you statement. We'd have a hefty revenue advantage over everyone else, which would build over time. We'd have Big 12 money in a MWC-like conference.
UCLA and USC kids will be flying to the Midwest every other week. My kid goes to a B1G school and the novelty of trips to the Midwest wears out fast. A easy flight up to the Bay Area and road trips to the PNW with a clear path the the playoff can be a major selling point to CA kids if done right.
Our games against the PNW schools have been tight (within 2 scores) lately.
OU: 3 of the last 4 years
OSU: 3 of 4
UW: 4 of 4
I don’t see how we aren’t in the discussion to win the PAC-8/10 every year.
I’m not saying I wouldn’t take the B1G money if offered but if not, we can still find ourselves in a pretty good spot.
Will UO and UW be around though?
Apparently, the answer is no.
I think the idea behind "gobbling up California recruits whose parents want to keep their games in California" is: if you go to Cal your away games are a lot closer (on the west coast + AZ + Utah) than if go to Ucla or USC (flights to the midwest every other weekend, most with a layover or 2).
The thing is, those recruits who we'll be "gobbling up" are gonna be offered NIL deals worth 6 figures more than what we can offer with our minuscule TV/Conference share revenue in the Pac 8 and their massive deal in the Big 10. The money and donor loyalty battle that we are already badly losing to the LA schools will widen even further if we don't get into the Big 10. And in the age of NIL, that is not a good thing for recruiting
TV money and NIL money are separate though, right? Schools received the TV money and explicitly cannot pay the NIL deals.
I don't disagree that we should want into the B1G. But exactly where the money goes and why it matters has always seemed a little under-explained to me.